knuckleharley Posted June 3, 2013 Report Share Posted June 3, 2013 ...I painted the insides of the fenders and grill with POR 15 a few days ago. ... Let me know how that works for you. I've had great luck with POR-15 when painting rusty stuff,but both times I have tried it with clean,rust-free bare metal it didn't stick worth a damn,and ended up coming off. Has anybody else had this problem,or is it just that I did something wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted June 3, 2013 Report Share Posted June 3, 2013 POR15 is not intended to be put over clean metal you have to follow their instruction closely when using their product to get the guaranteed results 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted June 3, 2013 Report Share Posted June 3, 2013 POR15 is not intended to be put over clean metal you have to follow their instruction closely when using their product to get the guaranteed results Ok,so how do you prep the metal for it in that case? It's been several years,but I could swear I read all the info on the can correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconvan Posted June 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2013 I had the fenders sandblasted so the inside had a fairly rough finish on it when I painted them; plus I used their metalprep first. I've had the same experience when trying to paint it straight over clean, shiny, metal. It came off in strips after a while. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted June 3, 2013 Report Share Posted June 3, 2013 POR 15 has a very good website that explains their products and how to use them. Most any direct rust application paint including rustoleum has warning not to use on bare metal..rustoleum is forgiving and excellent on bare metal if you ensure that the oils are given time to evap off the surface where there is no pits or rust to conform..properly cured rusty metal primer also sands as well as any primer surface when cured. Rustoleum used to have a very good blurb on the use of rusty metal primer but I could not find it last time I look at their website.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwrstory Posted June 3, 2013 Report Share Posted June 3, 2013 I had clean metal and even used a degreaser solvent and had the same issues with POR 15. I asked the local rep about the paint not sticking. He said that the product was developed to react with rust. His advise for the best adhesion was bare metal, sand blasted being best, and left out in the weather or lightly spritzed with water and left until the orange/brown of oxidation starts to appear. If you need to degrease, a strong detergent and water is best. Definitely no solvent based cleaners. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 I had the fenders sandblasted so the inside had a fairly rough finish on it when I painted them; plus I used their metalprep first. I've had the same experience when trying to paint it straight over clean, shiny, metal. It came off in strips after a while. I had the fenders sandblasted so the inside had a fairly rough finish on it when I painted them; plus I used their metalprep first. I've had the same experience when trying to paint it straight over clean, shiny, metal. It came off in strips after a while. Thanks. Is their metal prep a special metal prep for use with POR-15? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 I had clean metal and even used a degreaser solvent and had the same issues with POR 15. I asked the local rep about the paint not sticking. He said that the product was developed to react with rust. His advise for the best adhesion was bare metal, sand blasted being best, and left out in the weather or lightly spritzed with water and left until the orange/brown of oxidation starts to appear. If you need to degrease, a strong detergent and water is best. Definitely no solvent based cleaners. Thanks,that not only makes sense,but makes it more convenient to use. Especially in a hot and humid climate like I live in. Stuff literally starts to rust immediately after washing it to get rid of greasy finger prints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 (edited) POR 15 has a very good website that explains their products and how to use them. Most any direct rust application paint including rustoleum has warning not to use on bare metal..rustoleum is forgiving and excellent on bare metal if you ensure that the oils are given time to evap off the surface where there is no pits or rust to conform..properly cured rusty metal primer also sands as well as any primer surface when cured. Rustoleum used to have a very good blurb on the use of rusty metal primer but I could not find it last time I look at their website.. Thanks. I have been planning on using Rust-o-oleum marine primer (already bought it) on my 42 Dodge as I sand the body down a piece at a time. Mostly because the humidity and rust problem where I live is so bad. Going to use a brush or a roller to put it on,and then sand it down a little and use spray cans from Rusto-oleum to paint the car. Mostly because the pale purple color I am painting it (IIRC,they call it "Lilac") is only available in spray cans and I don't like mixing brands when painting. The good news is the electrician is coming next Monday to install the air-conditioners in my work shop and wire up my furnace,and I will finally be able to work out there year around! The metal quonset huts are great buildings,but hot as hell in the summer,and pretty cold in the winter because they lose heat quickly when the sun falls. I can't wait to get in there and get back to work on my project cars. once I finish cleaning up the yard by hauling off all the crusher-bait and the scrap. And by the time I finish that it will be too hot to work outside. Edited June 4, 2013 by knuckleharley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconvan Posted June 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 Man, that's cool; i wish I had A/C in my shop. I am hoping to go to a regular furnace this coming winter instead of the torpedo heater I've been using.Got the furnace, just need the funds to run bigger electric out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) Man, that's cool; i wish I had A/C in my shop. I am hoping to go to a regular furnace this coming winter instead of the torpedo heater I've been using.Got the furnace, just need the funds to run bigger electric out there. I have a 100k propane radiant heater with thermostat control that I bought brand new from Northern Tools to use,but my shop is 35x50 with a 18 foot ceiling,and I was told I needed a bigger furnace so I bought a 275K one with a blower. The Northern Tools radiant furance hangs from the ceiling and is supposed to be pretty cheap to run. If you are interested,I'll sell it to you for half price and it's never been out of the box. Since it is a radiant heater with no blower,you shouldn't have to have any new wiring ran to operate it. Here is the URL if you want to check it out and read the reviews. Arthur http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_996398_996398 BTW,I waited untl last November on purpose to buy my air-conditioners because that's when they are cheap. I bought two 22k bty Frigidaire wall/window mount units that are supposed to cool a combined 3,000 sq ft,and they have sleep mode,digital thermostats,remote controls,etc,etc,etc. Paid $539 each for them,including shipping. My new 275K furnace was $1350 delivered. If I had tried to go with a centeral unit it would have easily cost me more than 3 times that much. Edited June 7, 2013 by knuckleharley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Of the propane heaters both radiant and forced air are the burners vented to atmosphere with a seporate heat exchanger? Reason I ask, when propane burns at sea level with a normal oxygen level of 21% the by products are carbon dioxide and water. In an enclosed area the combustion will lower the oxygen content and the by products also change to carbon monxide, carbon deoxide, and water. Of course we dont want the carbon monxide, carbon deoxide, and we dont want the water as it will cause accelerated slow oxidation (AKA rapid rust). So in my opinion a heater with a vented burner running through a heat exchanger is the only way to go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconvan Posted June 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I appreciate the offer but I'm going electric. My house a/c had a slow leak I couldn't pin down so I took out the furnace and a/c and installed a new heat pump system. I saved my old electric furnace for the garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconvan Posted July 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) I got to spend several hours on this yesterday; seems like I havent touched it in a while. Nothing major, just cleaned up and painted several small parts, installed the dash and brake pedal assembly, and vacuumed out a lot of dust from the interior. Progress is progress. Edited July 5, 2013 by falconvan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Of the propane heaters both radiant and forced air are the burners vented to atmosphere with a seporate heat exchanger? Reason I ask, when propane burns at sea level with a normal oxygen level of 21% the by products are carbon dioxide and water. In an enclosed area the combustion will lower the oxygen content and the by products also change to carbon monxide, carbon deoxide, and water. Of course we dont want the carbon monxide, carbon deoxide, and we dont want the water as it will cause accelerated slow oxidation (AKA rapid rust). So in my opinion a heater with a vented burner running through a heat exchanger is the only way to go. Good question,Don. I just wish I could tell you for certain on the forced air system. I am assuming it is because it is a commercial unit made for use where people live and work,and it cost me $1350 on sale. I tend to be more than a little anal,and did a lot of research and this was one of the top-rated propane furnaces. Not so sure about the 100K radiant,but once again it is one of the top-rated brands and it's sold by Northern Tools and practically everybody else on the planet,and if there had been any deaths or illnesses due to the design it would have been off the market a long time ago. Are these heat exchangers supposed to be a separate item,or would them be built-in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 I got to spend several hours on this yesterday; seems like I havent touched it in a while. Nothing major, just cleaned up and painted several small parts, installed the dash and brake pedal assembly, and vacuumed out a lot of dust from the interior. Progress is progress. That's more than I have done to any of my project cars. Seems like I spend all my time cutting grass,stripping parts cars to haul off,working ON the shop instead of in it,and working on the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niel Hoback Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Yes, progress is progress, and when you step back and look at it, what shows in the pictures is pretty darn nice. Excellent work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 The heat exchanger is built in. A car radiator is one kind of heat exchanger. In a vented furnace there is a fire box where the burner is and all the combustion by products are vented to the roof. The heat exchanger sits in this firebox and the room air is forced through the heat exchanger and into the room. The room air and the firebox exhaust air do not commingle same as the water and air do not commingle in a car radiator. There are many different designs for a heat exchanger and the one I described is very basic. Ice cream is made in a scrape surface heat exchanger. Milk is pastureized in a plate heat exchanger. Good question,Don. I just wish I could tell you for certain on the forced air system. I am assuming it is because it is a commercial unit made for use where people live and work,and it cost me $1350 on sale. I tend to be more than a little anal,and did a lot of research and this was one of the top-rated propane furnaces. Not so sure about the 100K radiant,but once again it is one of the top-rated brands and it's sold by Northern Tools and practically everybody else on the planet,and if there had been any deaths or illnesses due to the design it would have been off the market a long time ago. Are these heat exchangers supposed to be a separate item,or would them be built-in? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 The heat exchanger is built in. A car radiator is one kind of heat exchanger. In a vented furnace there is a fire box where the burner is and all the combustion by products are vented to the roof. The heat exchanger sits in this firebox and the room air is forced through the heat exchanger and into the room. The room air and the firebox exhaust air do not commingle same as the water and air do not commingle in a car radiator. There are many different designs for a heat exchanger and the one I described is very basic. Ice cream is made in a scrape surface heat exchanger. Milk is pastureized in a plate heat exchanger. Ok,I know for a fact my 275K furnace has a vent pipe that goes through the roof. Now I have some idea of what you were talking about. I started out to get a "chicken house furnace" because they are cheap and produce mega heat,but then the propane people told me they aren't vented,and can be dangerous to use in a closed living space. Several of my friends with commercial garages use them with no problem,but they are always opening those tall garage doors during the day. At least once a hour. That floods the place with fresh air and nullifies the danger. I can't get away with that because my garage doors probably won't get opened once a week. My modern car and truck sits outside in the weather. Right now I even have two project cars sitting outside in the weather,and I need to put up some more shelving and move a modern car out to make room inside for them. The radiant furnace I have for sale is also safe because it is made for home garage use and has been in production for many years. Not sure how they handle the venting because I've never even had it out of the box,but it has to be safe for home use or they would have removed it from the market long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconvan Posted July 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 Here's the steering column I put together a while back; this was out of a 1 1/2 ton Checy truck. I cut it down 8", installed a bottom bearing, put on a weld on joint to connect to the steering shaft, and built the mount. Also been cruizing my busy coupe around. I went and picked up a 5 speed trans for it yesterday; it'll be getting a Mopar small block over the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 Better hope this guy isn't after ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 Here's the steering column I put together a while back; this was out of a 1 1/2 ton Checy truck. I cut it down 8", installed a bottom bearing, put on a weld on joint to connect to the steering shaft, and built the mount. Also been cruizing my busy coupe around. I went and picked up a 5 speed trans for it yesterday; it'll be getting a Mopar small block over the winter. Do you still have the flat 6 in your business coupe? An odd thing has happened to me in the last 10 years. I used to hate business coupes. Thought they were ugly. Even the shoebox Ford business coupes. Also hated 4 drs and prefered 2 door sedans. Now I not only own a 42 Dodge business coupe,but I'm starting to like some 4drs better than I like coupes or tudors. Especially Mopar 4drs from the 40's and my 33 Dodge 4dr. Truthfully,I don't think anybody made a car or truck of any bodystyle in 33 or 44 that wasn't beautiful,though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconvan Posted July 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 Yeah, it's still got the flatly. It's got some nice stuff like dual carbs, split exhaust and an electronic ignition and it does run really nice. But I've always been a v8 guy; that 100 horsepower just doesn't do the job for me. I've wanted a business coupe for several years so I was really happy to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 Yeah, it's still got the flatly. It's got some nice stuff like dual carbs, split exhaust and an electronic ignition and it does run really nice. But I've always been a v8 guy; that 100 horsepower just doesn't do the job for me. I've wanted a business coupe for several years so I was really happy to get it. Well,the good news is you shouldn't have any trouble selling it here. I might even be willing to make a trip to Mo to pick it up myself and to visit friends if the price is right when you get ready to get rid of it. It sure would be cool in my 33 Dodge 4dr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconvan Posted July 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Sounds good, I'll probably be taking it apart in October; I'll let you know when I'm ready to sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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