Failed Brakes

[Guest jtw3749c]

Just got off the phone with a friend of mine, that owns a 55 Plymouth. He had a nightmare with his brakes. No matter what he did, he couldn't get a full pedal and the car didn't want to stop very well. He replaced all the wheel cylinders and the master, bled the lines, numerous times. Took it to a brake shop, that had a guy that knows these brake systems and he couldn't find anything wrong with the system.

This friend finally at wits end, went back to the adjustment of the shoes. Everything perfect as far as spacing and all the measurements were all good. But when he pulled the drum back off, he decided to see how far out the rear pistons were moving the shoes. Whaa-laa!!!

Here is what the problem was, after a year of pulling out hair. These rear cylinders are new from Andy B. and the slot in the piston pins were found to be to deep. He found this out by swapping the old pins back in and hit the pedal and had the first FULL pedal since he restored the car. He measured them and the slot was 1/4 inch deeper in the pin. Shoes wouldn't reach the drums tight enough to apply braking.

So if your having problems similar to this, you might want to check that out.

Hope this helps someones sanity and saves an old car from the scrap yard.

JT

[Norm's Coupe]

Very good warning and technical post.

Its also puzzling that a trained mechanic couldn't find that problem in the shop. I think that mechanic should think about taking a refresher course. I would also be looking around for another shop to take my car into the next time around.

[Frank M.]

I had the same prob. and posted a thread about it a while back. There are several diff. length push pins,and the must be right for the piston thats mated to them. It really got to us till we found out. If you back the adjustment all the way off,there shouldnt be any play between the piston and the push pin.

[Joe Flanagan]

I'm going to be buying new wheel cylinders soon and what this has taught me is to never throw away the old item until the new arrives. I'll keep my old cylinders and compare the length of the pins to the new ones. It is a good technical tip, and one that could save others a lot of hair-pulling.

[55 Fargo]

Hi, I have heard of the wheel cyls that push the shoes out too much where the drums won't go back on, but this a new one.

I think if you get the Raybestos, made inthe US or get your wheel cyls sleeved m,ight even be a better bet, if possible.

I would get mine resleeved in a heart beat, if I could get it done locally......Fred

[Young Ed]

I'm strongly considering the sleeving thing for my next project. Of course there is a shop in town that does it. I had a similar problem to the one mentioned above in the 55. However mine was due to a mismatched pedal and pedal arm. It wasn't long enough to push the MC. Don't ask me why but dodge trucks changed pedal and arm sometime in the middle of the 39-47 run. And then somehow I got one of each set.

[Rodney Bullock]

I'm going to be buying new wheel cylinders soon and what this has taught me is to never throw away the old item until the new arrives. I'll keep my old cylinders and compare the length of the pins to the new ones. It is a good technical tip, and one that could save others a lot of hair-pulling.

Joe save your pins because new wheel cyl. don't come with them. They are sold separate:) that's a great rule of thumb always save old parts and compare them.

[55 Fargo]

Ed, what is the name of the outfit in the Twin Cities that resleeves cyls. I am really thinking of having mine sleeved. I wonder what may be the turn around time for this, shipping etc.......Fred

[Young Ed]

www.brakeplace.com

I've bought lots of stuff there but the only actual shop work I had done was my clutch. Very happy with that too. They relined my brake shoes but I haven't gotten them put on yet so while they look great I can't say that they worked

[55 Fargo]

Thanx Ed, I think I have contacted this outfit in the past, I think it is $50.00 to have the wheel cyls sleeved, but well worth it I think......Fred

[Young Ed]

That 50 each or a pair? Even 50 each might not be that bad

[55 Fargo]

I think it was $50.00 each, but if the raybestos ones are $50.00 each, the off shore stuff is about 30 to 40, the resleeved cyls should be superior to all of the others. What about Dorman brand, are they USA made, they are $30 for the rears and $18 for the fronts from Rock Auto, if they are of decent quality, that is a good deal..........Fred

[greg g]

Just another nail in the Burnbomb coffin. And nearly a disaster on the road. Guy has no scrupples and is a danger to us our families, and other motorists.

He needs to be held responsible for some of his crap.

If he is in the vendor list of this site his business listing should be removed and banned. Selling non working brake parts is criminal.

[daddyo23]

Ed,

If you need a master cylinder I may have one soon. I'm putting a dual on and my master has been re-sleeved by them. Let me know if you want it.

Wayne P.

[Young Ed]

Wayne I'd consider it for a spare but the one I need is a truck one. They aren't the same

[Reg Evans]

Thanks JT !

Maybe that's what's going on with my 42 Coupe. Brakes have been completely rebuilt with Bernbum parts and I can't get the pedal to firm up until it almost bottoms out on the floor. Hope I saved my old parts.

[55 Fargo]

You know that is real BS if they can get away with selling such crap, sorry for the rant.

Even though I have rebuilt original wheel cyls and MC, and the rears have slight leaks, I have a peadl that is high, it only goes down about an inch or so from the top.I would not even consider replacing with the horse padooky you can buy now, infact I may rehone these rear wheel cyls and give em another try.

I bled my brakes a lot when I installed everything, I did use dot 5 silicone, and so far do not regret it. I then adjusted the brakes shoes by ear, or was that by hand, they aren't too bad, as the wear on the shoes is fairly even.

These brakes need to be bled of course, to eliminate all air, but they need to be adjust correctly to get a nice high pedal. But if the wheel cyls cannot push out the shoes far enough, whats the use. It is a shame there are so many crap suppliers of these parts out there...........Fred

[Norm's Coupe]

I had new wheel cylinders all the way around before switching to disc brakes on the fronts. They came with new pins and they all worked fine. Still have the rears on the car and so far no problems.

[RobertKB]

I have to agree with everyone who talks about sleeving the old cylinders. With so much junk out there I just believe using the old cylinders with new sleeves is the way to go. Keeping old parts is a great idea also. I believe I have every spring, piston, pin, as well as the cylinders they came from I have replaced over the years. I think keeping old parts is saving for the future for either yourself or for others who can use the parts.

[John Mulders]

maybe I am not really understanding this one, if the pistons pins were too short would you not push the pistons out of the cylinder causing a major spil?

Same as you would have if you if you press the brake pedal without the drum on.

Aprils fools?

John

[Guest jtw3749c]

Certainly not an April Fools! If the pins had just the amount of slot mentioned above, it would only go that much farther. Not far enough to dump the whole piston out.

I bought many parts from Andy over the years. I had many good ones. Very few bad, But more good then bad. But he (Andy) is certainly an @ss to talk to sometimes. Probably wouldn't do any good to Bit_h him out. But anyway, there it is for what it's worth. Not a real pleasant person. Fina....