Engine Starting Diagnosis

[55 Fargo]

Hi all, this question has been raised by others as well as myself.

I find when starting my car after a day or so, it takes a number of cranks, then it fires right up.Yesterday was the same, it was about 30 in the garage, and I have 15 W 40 oil in the engine.

The electric choke is functioning very well, so no issues with that part of the equation.

I do not think it's a case of fuel bowl dry-out, infact, often when cold starting, once the engine fires up, it seems flooded and the carb needs to clear it self for a bit, then runs right smooth.

Now I am trying to determine if this is a carb thing, an ignition thing, or a coil thing, or if the battery is just cranking too slow when cold.

The battery has new 1/0 cables and excellent terminals and connections, plugs were brand new in 2005, but next to no miles on them, they also look normal, the points,cap,rotor, wires, coil are all new in the same year. I did not change the condensor for some reason.................Thanx Fred

[oldmopar]

40 weight oil is heavy for winter try a lighter oil maybe a 20 or a multi type. I if only does not start when cold I do not think its the condenser although electronics are affected by temperatures.

I would replace the condensor because its old and it sounds like the only part you have not changed.

[Plymouthy Adams]

cold viscosity is 15...he is using a multi weight oil..

[greg g]

Well the oil is fine as when it is cold it is acting like 15 weight, this should be fine for temps above 10 degrees. So what you haven't told us is what your starting procedure is when the engine is cold.

Remember we are not starting a computer controlled engine with fuel injection that we are all used to in our regular cars. So we need to do a bit of thinking for our engines. I believe the starting procedure in the manual calls for you to press the pedal to the floor board. This accomplishes three things. Gives you engine aa shot of nice cold unatomized gas, closes the choke butterfly and sets the high idle cam on the carb linkage.

Now most people will start cranking the starter at this point and if the engine does not start will pump the gas pedal again and in most cases repeatedly, giving the engine several more shots of cold unatomized gas. Which has no choice but to drop into the manifold and sit there till it gets sucked into the nearest cylinders when you spin the starter ( that gas will take the route of least resistance) .

If you have a manual, it says to step on the gas pedal and hold it 1/3 to 1/2 open while cranking the engine. If you leave the throttle closed you are in effect trying to start a flooded (or at least overly rich fuel air mix) engine. You need to compensate for the extra fuel by admitting some extra air inspire of the closed choke.

If you don't believe me read the owners manual for starting your garden tractor, snow blower, or string trimmer. I believe all of them recommend, push the primer a few times, close the choke and open the throttle to full open, start the engine. When the engine starts, shut off the choke and adjust the throttle for proper running speed.

Give this procedure a try next time you cold start your engine.

[55 Fargo]

Thanx Greg, I do exactly as you have mentioned, foot to floor, sets clutch/fast idle. But it still cranks, at first and does not fire at first, I have to hit the starter button 3 to 4 times to get it to fire. I will be honest, after it does this, I have given it extra pumps of gas, not a good idea, I suppose. The engine does crank fairly slow at 30 in the garage, so maybe that is also a problem.............Fred

[Lou Earle]

Make sure your battery is fully charged- cranking in cold I think takes more power and therefore the juice to dist is weak.And as we crank it gets weaker- also I would charge it overnight or several day with a 2 amp trickle automatic charger- It relay makes a difference.

Lou

[Don Coatney]

When my car sits for a few days the gasoline in the carburetors evaporates. I must spin the starter a few revoloutions until the fuel pump sends more fuel. Then I pump the gas pedal a couple of times hit the starter button and she fires up directly.

[55 Fargo]

Hi Don, I realize if the engine sits for a few days or more this will happen. But it will do this in a few hours of starting it last.

This morning I started it, then left it for a few hours, went back to the car, air filter off, so I can see what is going on, pumped the gas pedal once, hit the starter button, the same thing happens, hard to start. But it will start, once the engine warms up a bit, you can shut her off, hit the starter button, and she fires up immediately.

The engine is crankin slow when cold, maybe it is the battery at fault, my cables are brand new, but are #1s, not 1/0s like I mentioned before, made a mistake on that, could the #1 cables be at fault, should I get 2/0s or something................Fred

[Rodney Bullock]

Rockwood, when I start my car, I often don't give it gas or anything until I have spun the starter once, this brings gas up to the carb. You may pump the gas however if there is no gas up there you got nothing. The one thing I do with the stude is I turn the lights on for a couple of seconds, this kind of heats up the battery, I think the term "cold cranking amps" says that the battery has something to offer in the way of 30 degree weather. You said that your plugs are clean, I know that if I just start my plymouth in the garage the plugs get this soot on them. This makes it hard to start. Pull one and see if it has this film on it. The choke makes this happen because the car burns very rich with the choke on. I bet once you develope a procedure to starting your car it will become much easier:)

[55 Fargo]

Thanx Rodney, I have tried different methods to start this engine, one of the best is a slight pressing of the gas pedal to activate the auto choke, which works great.

One thing I do notice is this, the engine is turning over very slowly, I do know 6 volt does turn over slower than 12 volt systems, but I don't think it should be a lot slower as mine is when cold, the ambient temp in the garage during these start-ups is about 30. I could make it 60 in there by turning up the furnace, but the way I figure it, the engine should still start good at 30 degrees.................Fred

[Lou Earle]

Hi Don, I realize if the engine sits for a few days or more this will happen. But it will do this in a few hours of starting it last.

This morning I started it, then left it for a few hours, went back to the car, air filter off, so I can see what is going on, pumped the gas pedal once, hit the starter button, the same thing happens, hard to start. But it will start, once the engine warms up a bit, you can shut her off, hit the starter button, and she fires up immediately.

The engine is crankin slow when cold, maybe it is the battery at fault, my cables are brand new, but are #1s, not 1/0s like I mentioned before, made a mistake on that, could the #1 cables be at fault, should I get 2/0s or something................Fred

This, to me gives, every indication that your problem is in the ignition- remember -If your are sure it is a fuel problem check your ignition.!!!

I would re-set the points and the timing . I had the problems you are having in my Dodge and I re set everything and no problems now same for 46 coupe.

Lou

[DutchEdwin]

Fred,

Perhaps a little focus on the electrical system......

A few year ago I drove an old car, like 20 years old, with a carb on the engine. When I bought it 7 years earlier it was hard to start, had low mileage to the gallon etc. For I did not know the state of all the electrical parts I first started to clean all the electrical connections with waterprove sandpaper. Did all the wires, tabs and terminals on the generator, coil etc. To prevent it from oxidizing again did put on a little anti-seize grease (which is copper based so it conducts the current and heat). Did the same with the spark plug wires and battery terminals.

This was all the trick that was needed. After this I had no starting problems with it. It always took two starting attempts, summer or winter, no matter how long I didn't drive (1 hour or 1 week).

Did the same trick when I was on holiday on a car from a young French coulpe that were stranded on the to of the mountain Mont Ventoux and refused to start. After I was finished it started right up and the French owner said this was the first time it did start that quick.

My two cents....

Good luck.

[55 Fargo]

Thanx Lou and Dutch, will employ some of these methods and see if it remedies the situation......................Fred

[daddyo23]

I seem to have the same problem. It will crank and nothing. I can put a few drops of the gas down the carb and it fires right off. I'm still learning this "new" car, which has a manual choke. I'm gonna try cleaning all the connections and see what happens. I have #1 cables, also.

Wayne P.

[central52]

Me too, when I pour some gas down the carb, get in, push the starter button, and it starts right up. So, would pumping the gas pedal before starting it be the same as pouring gas down the carb? Ed P.

[Don Coatney]

Me too, when I pour some gas down the carb, get in, push the starter button, and it starts right up. So, would pumping the gas pedal before starting it be the same as pouring gas down the carb? Ed P.

It would be the same only if there is gas in the carburetor and the accelerator pump is working. If the car starts after you pour gas down the throat of the carburetor then there is no gas in the float bowl or the accelerator pump is not working.

[Reg Evans]

I have this problem with all my 6 volt flatties. They all seem to suffer from DCS (dry carb syndrome) Whether Stromberg or Carter....they all seem to go dry after a couple of days so instead of cranking the starter excessively I prime the carb with a squirt of gas. Once the float bowls refill the accelerator pumps work fine. I'm going to install elec. fuel pumps one a dees days.

[Lou Earle]

I install a 6 vpump on most of mine to solve the leak down problem- I usually put it on the fender near the carb- works fine there - I have 4 that way

Lou

[55 Fargo]

I like this idea of the electric fuel pump, but mine has got gas, it is either cranking too slow, or ignition is not getting enough juice out, cuz once she fires, the carb has to clear it self as if it were flooded a bit.

I need to get one of you Gurus on the phone one day, and let you here how it is starting, or make a video of it and share with you guys...........Fred

[Rodney Bullock]

When your car is running, take some brake cleaner or carb cleaner and spray around the base of the carb. Your starting problem and the clearing of the carb after firing might be one and the same, if you have a slight air leak then it will give the impression that it needs to clear it's throat and the line and bowl will not hold gas, like sucking soda in a straw, if you allow any air to go into the straw the soda will go back into the glass. When we first build these cars they work so well because everything is tight all gaskets, fittings bolts, as it gets road worn things start to happen. Cleaning those connections tightening those carb base gasket bolts. check check check;)

[55 Fargo]

This is a possibility Rodney, I do see the carb body a little wet with gas, come to mention it. There is a possibility,the carb is sucking air somehow...................Thanx Fred

[billwillard]

In your first post you say after starting it seems flooded. I think you need a carb rebuild. How did your car start in warm weather? I would say it is the same. CARBURETOR Just my three cents worth.

Bill