53windsor Posted August 24 Report Posted August 24 Working on a Rusty Hope disc brake conversion [1953 Windsor) and I'm trying to remove the spindle. Got the top Welsh plug out, now I'm onto the screw(?) that holds the kingpin in. It looked like a rivet at first, but if I zoom into the pics it looks like a broken bolt. The plan is to start drilling unless somebody has a better idea. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 24 Report Posted August 24 if you are not renewing the king pin bushings there is no need to remove them as drilling and tapping is easily done in place on the car. Quote
Loren Posted August 24 Report Posted August 24 The quick and dirty way to remove the Windsor spindle is to take a long pin punch from the bottom and punch through the plug in the bottom and remove the king pin from the top. Try not to damage the needle bearing in the top as they are no long made. BUT FIRST: You have to remove the pin that holds the king pin in place. In your photo #2 you will see a pin about mid-way on the "Support" ( which some folks call the Upright ) Take your pin punch and tap on the end that sticks out. Once you get that pin out the king Pin is free and will come out the top. If you are using a disc brake kit made for a Plymouth...the spindles are different. Your Windsor brakes and spindles have value don't toss them. Quote
53windsor Posted August 24 Author Report Posted August 24 I have changed course. I have managed to get one hole tapped so far. Looked all over locally for a 37/64ths drill and came up empty. Turns out the hole is pretty darn close already. Go figure. That pin is not coming out, and thats fine. There doesn't appear to be any slop in the joint so I'm just going to leave all that alone. On to # 2. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 24 Report Posted August 24 this may or may not help you...but...when it comes time to drill out the dog bone for the steering arm to bolt at the bottom you will need to be able to secure this well for drilling....a picture here of how I secured my dog bone by locking it beneath the spindle and held in place in similar manner as I did with this scissors jack... Quote
Sniper Posted August 24 Report Posted August 24 1 hour ago, 53windsor said: That pin is not coming out, Yeah, I had issues with that pin too. So I took the uprights off, went to the machine shop and had them rebuild the king pin setup and drill/tap the holes. I had bought the correct sized bit online and the first hole I tried to drill just resized the bit, lol. But I have a setup that has a rebuild kit available. YMMV. Quote
Loren Posted August 25 Report Posted August 25 You gotta use a BFH! lol If you tap on the wrong end it gets tighter. A pin punch the right size ( and be careful if you slip off you'll peen the thing over and you'll have to grind it down ) I use 3 1/2 Engineer's hammer ( aka BFH ). Done right and you can reuse the pin. As you can tell I've done a few of these. When you get the hang of it there's nothing to dread, the job is fun. Quote
andyd Posted August 25 Report Posted August 25 If you look closely at BOTH your pics the 1st one shows a ROUND end to the locking pin( this is the side its installed from).........the 2nd pic shows a ROUND end BUT with a shamfered edge which is essentially a "wedge" that locks against the king pin(the side thats hit to remove it)......this locking pin is installed from the opposite side to where you see that edge..........therefore to remove the pin you use a punch of the same diameter as the pin against the edged side with a couple of good hammer blows and the pin should pop out then use a punch to hit the kin pin either up or down as is your preferencemaybe squirt a little WD40 into the locking pin hole but they generally come out with a couple of good wacks with a BFH............lol......you can also use a 3/8 bolt of about 4-5" long which gives you enough space to hold the bolt with a diameter thats pretty close to the locking pin diameter...............regards from Oz.......andyd Quote
Loren Posted August 25 Report Posted August 25 I am used to salvaging the brakes from self serve wrecking yards. In that case you take as little apart as you can. Thus my procedure is to break loose the tie rod end first. It’s a taper of course so I take the nut off and smack the end of the arm with the aforementioned BFH. Remove the brake line by unfastening or cutting. Then look for the long end of the King Pin locking pin and tap it with your pin punch. The pin is straight with a tapered cut on the side and is held in place with a couple of dings in the short end. The King Pin only comes out the top because the steering arm is bolted across the bottom so you take your pin punch and punch through the tin plug on the bottom ( there’s a space to do this over the steering arm ) and it pushes the top plug out with the King Pin. Once you pull the King Pin the complete spindle and brake assembly is free as a unit. In a self serve wrecking yard you want to present as few pieces as possible on check out. They have this nasty habit of wanting to charge you for each piece. I’ve even put the wheel back on to discourage this. lol Quote
53windsor Posted August 26 Author Report Posted August 26 Status update: I broke the tap on hole 2, backing up, breaking the chips. 😑 ordering a new one since apparently I'm the first guy in the county to ever need to tap a 5/8 hole, and nothing is available locally. Thanks for all the advice. I'll keep plugging away at it. Quote
andyd Posted August 26 Report Posted August 26 What hole are you tapping a thread in?.....is it the two holes on the steering arm?..........I've adapted disc brakes to a few different year mopars here in oz, all essentially the same I'm curious as to what you are doing?.....if the intention is attach the steering arms via bolts from the caliper adaptor into the newly threaded steering arms I would still use longer bolts that protrude enough to allow nuts to be used as a failsafe where the bolts protrude on the steering arms........but thats just me............andyd Quote
sidevalvepete Posted August 26 Report Posted August 26 16 hours ago, andyd said: If you look closely at BOTH your pics the 1st one shows a ROUND end to the locking pin( this is the side its installed from).........the 2nd pic shows a ROUND end BUT with a shamfered edge which is essentially a "wedge" that locks against the king pin(the side thats hit to remove it)......this locking pin is installed from the opposite side to where you see that edge..........therefore to remove the pin you use a punch of the same diameter as the pin against the edged side with a couple of good hammer blows and the pin should pop out then use a punch to hit the kin pin either up or down as is your preferencemaybe squirt a little WD40 into the locking pin hole but they generally come out with a couple of good wacks with a BFH............lol......you can also use a 3/8 bolt of about 4-5" long which gives you enough space to hold the bolt with a diameter thats pretty close to the locking pin diameter...............regards from Oz.......andyd I don't think 53Windsor has realised this yet and is trying to extract a threaded bolt instead of the pin...but I may be mis-interpreting this... Quote
53windsor Posted August 26 Author Report Posted August 26 The kit includes a caliper plate that bolts between the spindle and steering arm, with threads in the spindle (being cut by me) holding it all together. There would be no clearance behind the rotor for a bolt head or nut. I realize now that the pin is not threaded and have abandoned that course of action since there is no slop in the kingpin and no reason to take it off. Sometimes the "right way" is just more work. Now I know. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 26 Report Posted August 26 I am not sure I am strong enough to brake a 5/8 tap....what you using for a cutting lube? Some OTC lubes are not worth buying, good ole dino juice works well. Quote
Sniper Posted August 26 Report Posted August 26 One thing to know about that kit, with the plate sandwiched where it is your tie rods will be closer together and cause major toe out. I ended up getting a different, shorter, tie rod end sleeve to correct this. Anyway, here's the write up I did on my swap, 51 Cambridge. May, or may not, be useful with your swap. Quote
53windsor Posted August 26 Author Report Posted August 26 I am aware the toe will need adjustment. Is there not enough adjustability for that? Quote
Sniper Posted August 26 Report Posted August 26 I had a half inch of toe out and in my case there was not enough adjustment for that. YMMV. But your tierod setup is different than mine, I believe. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted August 28 Report Posted August 28 my 54 Plymouth stock adjusters were not an issue....but as Sniper states.....your's could very well be different. Quote
Jim Shepard Posted August 30 Report Posted August 30 On 8/26/2024 at 12:24 PM, Sniper said: I had a half inch of toe out and in my case there was not enough adjustment for that. YMMV. But your tierod setup is different than mine, I believe. The other issue I ran into with my Rusty Hope conversion (on a B2B truck) is the centering of the steering wheel, which is thrown off because of the caliper plate changing the geometry. The B2B has a non-adjustable drag link, which means you can’t truly center the steering wheel. Well, technically you can center it on the column but it won’t be centered at the box. I ended getting an adjustable drag link from DCM. Works great. As an aside, I also converted my brakes to dual chamber. I used a master cylinder from an ‘86 Toyota Celica. It has the exact three-hole bolt pattern. The holes just need to hogged out a little. I also fabricated a bracket to hold the proportioning valve in correct position relative to the MC (see photo). 1 Quote
Jim Shepard Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 I do always have a certain trepidation when posting on the car side since I know nothing about them. My first car was a 1951 Chrysler, but I basically knew how to fill it with gas and nothing else… 1 Quote
sidevalvepete Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 The more I know...the more I know that I don't know... 2 Quote
Sniper Posted August 31 Report Posted August 31 11 hours ago, sidevalvepete said: The more I know...the more I know that I don't know... Ain't that the truth, I end up going down lot's of rabbit holes "learning". lol Quote
Desert Rat Posted September 4 Report Posted September 4 I just did the Rusty Hope conversion and had trouble drilling the large holes out on the spindle and tie rods. Since I didn't want to go through the whole king pin removal headache, I thought I would drill these on the car. . My bits kept jamming and twisting out of shape every time they would bite into the steel. So I ended up just hogging out the holes with a rotary file on a drill (not a large amount of material to remove) then moved on to tapping the spindle. I used plenty of A-9 and took it nice and easy.. Have an issue with some brake hose clearance but other than that, really happy with the end result. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted September 4 Report Posted September 4 I have never been that fond of tap-eze and any of the products for aluminum such as what you show. Next time you wish to tap an aluminum hole, use a bar of soap....drag the tap across the soap bar filling between the cutting blades of the tap and you should have a smooth and clean cut....and I am not meaning soap clean either. For steel, good oil and or grease...grease if you wishing to keep chips from falling through...start, go a few turns....back it out, clean the chips, fresh grease to trap the next chips. Quote
Sniper Posted September 4 Report Posted September 4 (edited) There is no aluminum in the swap, not sure how you got that? I had the same issue drilling the holes, the spindle just resized my brand new, bought just for this job, drill bit. If I haven't thrown it away I'll take a picture of the two diameter bit lol. I ended up just taking it to the machine shop and let them drill and tap it. Should have done that to begin with since I needed the king pins redone anyway, Edited September 4 by Sniper Quote
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