Removed the oil pan.

[Ivan_B]

I am doing some maintenance, and thought I'd share some good things.

Removed the oil pan, today, for cleaning and gasket replacement. The engine insides look great, almost no sludge; some sediment at the bottom of the pan but not too much. The pan has definitely been down before. One of the screws was missing the split washer, and one of the flywheel studs is not sitting correctly. Why would anyone do something like that? The studs have a flat spot for a reason... 🙄 Also, the pan gasket is rubber (not original) while the valve covers still had the fossilized cork.

 

I was a bit concerned about the pan not clearing the steering rod, but it did.

 

Edited May 5 by Ivan_B

[keithb7]

Looks great, clean in there. Based on my engine those flywheel studs appear to be in backwards. On mine, the nuts went on the engine side. The bolt head with the flat cut in it, sat in a recessed groove on the clutch side of the flywheel. As seen here. View here is from the transmission looking through the bell housing here at rear of flywheel.  You can see the transmission input pinion pilot bushing in the crank here.

 

Edited May 6 by keithb7

[Ivan_B]

21 hours ago, keithb7 said:

Based on my engine those flywheel studs appear to be in backwards.

I assume you are referring to the 38? The manual actually shows them inserted my way, page 108, 1942 diagram. Maybe it used to be the other way around on the older models? 🤔

 

I took the oil pan down to the DIY car-wash, to give it a good rinse, and that did not work-out so well. Instead of rinsing off the goo at the bottom, I pushed it all over the place. Now that I think of it, I recall having a very similar experience the last time I tried to de-grease engine parts at a local car-wash 🙄

So it looks like I'll have to hot tank it, now. I could use a large trash can around the house, but was not planning for this quick repair to get this complicated 🥲

[John-T-53]

Why is this in OT? Looks like a flathead engine....

 

If so, the flywheel bolt heads face the engine, and nuts face the clutch. No room for nuts on the engine side. 

 

Use a solvent such as mineral spirits or gasoline to clean the sludge in the pan. Or a jet wash / hot tank if you have access to one...

[Ivan_B]

 

12 minutes ago, John-T-53 said:

Why is this in OT? Looks like a flathead engine....

John, you are right, this is my 1940 201". I just posted this to have a general discussion about how well the engine preserved, did not feel appropriate to post this chit-chat topic in a technical forum.

 

I could cold-tank it in gasoline (since wiping alone would not be effective here), but what to do with all the waste afterwards? I was thinking of doing the DIY trashcan hot tank with simple green instead, to be more environmentally friendly

[John-T-53]

34 minutes ago, Ivan_B said:

 

John, you are right, this is my 1940 201". I just posted this to have a general discussion about how well the engine preserved, did not feel appropriate to post this chit-chat topic in a technical forum.

 

I could cold-tank it in gasoline (since wiping alone would not be effective here), but what to do with all the waste afterwards? I was thinking of doing the DIY trashcan hot tank with simple green instead, to be more environmentally friendly

 

use solvent with a combo of scraping and rags to get the bulk of it. Don't need too much solvent, it will cut the sludge and grime. you don't need a tank of solvent, necessarily. Just pour some in, wipe it up, repeat....

 

Then you could do a final clean with water based cleaner. I recommend "Super clean" or "purple power" - way more effective than simple green. 

[kencombs]

On 5/5/2024 at 11:39 PM, keithb7 said:

Looks great, clean in there. Based on my engine those flywheel studs appear to be in backwards. On mine, the nuts went on the engine side. The bolt head with the flat cut in it, sat in a recessed groove on the clutch side of the flywheel. As seen here. View here is from the transmission looking through the bell housing here at rear of flywheel.  You can see the transmission input pinion pilot bushing in the crank here.

 

Seems mopar wasn’t consistent on this.  I’ve owned a 58 325 poly, 61 383rb, 56.51&54 flatheads.  All had the nuts on the engine side.  And required a specific wrench to deal with them.  That’s why you see so many folks on the ‘net looking for ways to dismantle a stuck engine.  No nuts reachable after removing the transmission 

[Sniper]

On 5/7/2024 at 12:24 PM, John-T-53 said:

Then you could do a final clean with water based cleaner. I recommend "Super clean" or "purple power" - way more effective than simple green. 

 

And way more caustic.

 

Simple green works fine with time and a little elbow grease.  That's all we used to clean up grease and oil spills on the wind turbines and it is what is in my parts washer.

For an oil pan?  I'd buy a small kiddy pool, hang the pan above it and use brake clean to hose it out.  Whatever you do, DO NOT have it sand blasted.

[John-T-53]

Oil pan sludge can be one of the most difficult things to clean especially when mixed with tetraethyl lead deposits. Sometimes even a parts washer won't cut it. 

 

I used to use simple green quite often but switched to super clean because it's a lot more effective (yup, and caustic). Gloves definitely needed. 

 

I only use brake clean for the final rinse, it doesn't have much grease cutting abilities since it's too volatile. But works great at removing light oily residue in prep for painting. 

[Ivan_B]

7 hours ago, Sniper said:

I'd buy a small kiddy pool, hang the pan above it and use brake clean to hose it out.

Too late, I already have it soaking inside the trash can. Heating with an 1000w electric "burner". It take a bit of time to warm-up 🤣

I tried to spray with some solvents, you have to manually work it into the surface for it to work, and there is no good way to get underneath the splash screens... That could probably work at the very beginning, with some patience, if I did not take it to the car wash and smeared that goo all over the place

[keithb7]

Too late for my comments but I’ll share for future readers. Wearing gloves I scooped up the sludge and lead goo with a 1.5” plastic scraper. One designed for drywall mud. I collected all that and put it in with my engine oil recycling container.  It was sent out with recycling. Then I followed up with paper shop towels and kerosene. Then kerosene and a solvent brush. If needed, a narrow paint brush with the bristles cut short gets in tighter areas. More liberal use of shop towels. I may or may not have burned the shop towels. 

[Ivan_B]

On 5/12/2024 at 5:07 AM, keithb7 said:

Too late for my comments but I’ll share for future readers. . .

And that would've bee the right way to do this. Maybe next time 😉

I finally managed to put everything back together. The oil pan was soaked in simple green, for a couple of days, then rinsed with carb cleaner and wiped clean. The old paint completely came off, so I had to brush-on some protective coating. It took me additional 2 days to clean the oil pickup. Apparently, it was full of the same goo as the pan (douh), so I had it soaking in gas, then rinsed with water, and eventually used waterpik to clean the inside mesh. Mounting the oil pan back-up is probably much more easy when the engine is out of the car, I tell you what... 😅 And who ever decided to make the holes for the 4 corner pan bolts to go straight inside the engine - not cool... 🙄

What a mess this whole thing turned out to be 🥲

[keithb7]

Your progress looks good. You’re earning your Mopar stripes. Most of us have been there too, in your position. Removing all old goop and re-installing the oil pan while laying under the car. 

Before you put oil pan back on

Consider de-gooping valve area with kerosene and a brush. Scoop out what sludge you can. Kerosene and brush the rest. Let it drop down to catch a  basin on your floor. When all is clean, then re-install oil pan.  Finally clean out your oil filter can. Then you can safely run modern detergent oil. That’s what I did. 
 

While oil pan is off I pulled a rod cap and inspected the bearing. Measured crank there too.  Might be opening a can of worms, but it is nice to know. 

Edited May 14 by keithb7

[John-T-53]

On 5/14/2024 at 6:42 AM, Ivan_B said:

And that would've bee the right way to do this. Maybe next time 😉

I finally managed to put everything back together. The oil pan was soaked in simple green, for a couple of days, then rinsed with carb cleaner and wiped clean. The old paint completely came off, so I had to brush-on some protective coating. It took me additional 2 days to clean the oil pickup. Apparently, it was full of the same goo as the pan (douh), so I had it soaking in gas, then rinsed with water, and eventually used waterpik to clean the inside mesh. Mounting the oil pan back-up is probably much more easy when the engine is out of the car, I tell you what... 😅 And who ever decided to make the holes for the 4 corner pan bolts to go straight inside the engine - not cool... 🙄

What a mess this whole thing turned out to be 🥲

 

Looks good, bro!