'50 Plymouth Deluxe body pics needed

[50Fastback]

IMG_2541.HEICHi all--

 

After a couple year hiatus, I'm back at another round of improving the old fastback.  Have ordered a bead roller and am going to tackle floor pans and some other body work myself.  Someone did some Mickey Mouse work before and took 16 ga sheet steel and just went over the old rusted out floor pans and then bolted them in and coated them with some tar/body panel deadener.  Soooo...I could really use any pics of good sheet metal that would include the driver's access panel (with the panel removed, inner rocker panels, and pics that show body braces/mount locations. 

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by 50Fastback

[Sniper]

Your picture doesn't load, it's an off brand format.

[Los_Control]

[50Fastback]

7 hours ago, Los_Control said:

Thanks!

[50Fastback]

8 hours ago, Sniper said:

Your picture doesn't load, it's an off brand format.

Thanks--I see I have to resize them now before uploading.  

[Los_Control]

18 minutes ago, 50Fastback said:

Thanks--I see I have to resize them now before uploading.  

I just set the size on my phone, so it creates smaller pics in the first place. For future photos.

I forget what makes the .heic prefix. I just opened the photo with my editor and save it as a .jpeg file.

I did not need to resize that photo though?

 

[50Fastback]

5 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

I just set the size on my phone, so it creates smaller pics in the first place. For future photos.

I forget what makes the .heic prefix. I just opened the photo with my editor and save it as a .jpeg file.

I did not need to resize that photo though?

 

Great advice--I have an Iphone and am going to work on doing that now--then tonight I'll repost with more pics from inside and under the car.  Thanks

[Plymouthy Adams]

we need the equivalent of SAE for software....

[50Fastback]

3 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

we need the equivalent of SAE for software....

Haha!  So true....on some level I miss the days of land lines and snail mail--but then again I wouldn't have this amazing forum and wealth of information at my fingertips....gotta take the good with the bad I guess It's been a couple of years since I've been active on here so nice to hear from you--you schooled/helped me on a few issues in the past.

[Plymouthy Adams]

welcome back and hoping you can stick with the project for a spell.  I know fully well how easy it is for life events to throw you a curve ball and take you away from working your projects.   I stalled a few days on a current project trying to get actual dimensions as the samples I had were not as we say, falling into place or making sense.  Am moving forward again as of this afternoon.  

 

[50Fastback]

Okay, now that I've figured out how to successfully load photos, I have a bunch of questions about this body before I dig in deeper on it.  As a mentioned earlier it appears to have two layers of floor pans, so looking at the underside of it leaves me confused about know what I'll need to purchase or try recreating. 

Also....I can reach my hand down into this passage and out of the car---does this mean I need an inner rocker? (the outer rocker is intact).  

 

A picture of this area intact on a car would be great....

I'm both eager and hesitant to cut out the driver's side floor pan so I have a clearer picture of what is needed, plus start grinding off rust and painting frame and body mounts.  I've watched a lot of pretty talented "YouTubers" (Cold War Motors, DIY Automotive) and I know the general rule of thumb is not to cut too much at once, but based on what I'm seeing I'm thinking of just cutting everything bad out from the bottom of the driver's access panel back to that last body mount in the photos (along the driver's side only).  Advice is welcome and appreciated, as this is my first go at sheet metal work.  Thanks.  

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by 50Fastback

[Plymouthy Adams]

the car body is layers of steel that are connected usually by the spot welds.  To repair, and doing said repair by making your own panels, yes I also suggest smaller segments removed at a time.  I also suggest full perimeter welds of the replaced parts.  The body on your car is a bit more gone than many in the area of the kick panel, floor and inner rocker and below the quarter light is typical of this year vehicle also.  I salvage a 51 Plymouth Suburban that did look very much like your damage.  The task is not all that hard but some of the standing on your head to weld will qualify you for the Olympic gymnastics team.  

 

I could send you some pic but would not post here....close to maxing out my photo allocation.  IF interested, send me a PM with your e-mail....and as stated...working one segment at a time.  I however recommend the front at the cowl to begin as so much is going on here that ties the body together.  Making your panels will not be hard with  bead roller....but you may wish to have another set of hands to turn the crank as you guide the metal.  It can get involved.   Outer rockers should be readily available  C2C should be able to help.  DO NOT EXPECT perfect fits even with shaped panels...it has been 30+ years since I have seen factory replacement rockers.   The rear pan under the quarter lights will likely continue into the wheel opening with your repairs...again, layers fixing the deepest layer first cutting a tad beyond the next layer so you will have good metal to weld the next layer in place. 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Plymouthy Adams

[Plymouthy Adams]

50 Fastback................check your inbox....I posted a few links to some of my step by step pictorials that are already here on the forum....

[50Fastback]

1 hour ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

the car body is layers of steel that are connected usually by the spot welds.  To repair, and doing said repair by making your own panels, yes I also suggest smaller segments removed at a time.  I also suggest full perimeter welds of the replaced parts.  The body on your car is a bit more gone than many in the area of the kick panel, floor and inner rocker and below the quarter light is typical of this year vehicle also.  I salvage a 51 Plymouth Suburban that did look very much like your damage.  The task is not all that hard but some of the standing on your head to weld will qualify you for the Olympic gymnastics team.  

 

I could send you some pic but would not post here....close to maxing out my photo allocation.  IF interested, send me a PM with your e-mail....and as stated...working one segment at a time.  I however recommend the front at the cowl to begin as so much is going on here that ties the body together.  Making your panels will not be hard with  bead roller....but you may wish to have another set of hands to turn the crank as you guide the metal.  It can get involved.   Outer rockers should be readily available  C2C should be able to help.  DO NOT EXPECT perfect fits even with shaped panels...it has been 30+ years since I have seen factory replacement rockers.   The rear pan under the quarter lights will likely continue into the wheel opening with your repairs...again, layers fixing the deepest layer first cutting a tad beyond the next layer so you will have good metal to weld the next layer in place. 

 

Thanks, I was intending on doing full perimeter welds like you said, as I can tell when I drive the car that this body is not structurally sound, OR level at this point, so I really want to correct all that.  If you could send pics to jxc330@gmail.com, I would be really appreciative.  I'm glad to hear you've had a car in similar condition because I was initially pretty daunted and almost sold it once or twice after looking under it, but I'm determined to forge ahead--when I found the car it didn't run, all four wheels were seized, no lights worked, etc....so I CAN'T quit on her now   Your comment about replacement panels not being exact is timely because the access panel I just got from C2C was NOT something like what Plym. Doctor used to.  I spent a bit of time last night beating the thing with a hammer & dolly set I bought trying to get it to conform to the old one.  

 

You're correct about the rear quarter light---someone fiberglassed up into the wheel opening where it had eaten away.  You mentioned outer rockers--did you mean inner?  My outers all appear solid, and unless I'm mistaken I seem to have no inners.....I thought the two usually form a "tube" so to speak.  I'm going to take your advice and start in small sections as well, and will begin at that cowl area as soon as I get pics.  Thanks.

[Plymouthy Adams]

IF you decide to again chance a panel from a online metal bender.....DO NOT CUT OUT your old until you have the panel you are buying in your hot little hands....often easier to also conform that panel to your body prior to removal of the bad section....yes your inner rocker often suffers as much if not more than the outer. 

 

you era car as will any Briggs body of the era will have damage at the cowl/kickpanel/floor pan, inside under the rear glass if two door that continues to the pan, rear cross brace and into the inner rear fender...the drop in access floor pan at the drivers floor and likely rear trunk corners and maybe even trunk lip damage on the inner stiffener panel.  The inner rockers suffer greatly, outer rockers and lower door skin and the body that is behind the door and under the rear window.  The door opening at the rear where it curves up also seem to like to rot out.   Also sadly the crossties that support the body and tie the rockers left to right take a hit as these are reversed bend of what could have prevented this damage if flipped in production.  

[50Fastback]

1 hour ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

IF you decide to again chance a panel from a online metal bender.....DO NOT CUT OUT your old until you have the panel you are buying in your hot little hands....often easier to also conform that panel to your body prior to removal of the bad section....yes your inner rocker often suffers as much if not more than the outer. 

 

you era car as will any Briggs body of the era will have damage at the cowl/kickpanel/floor pan, inside under the rear glass if two door that continues to the pan, rear cross brace and into the inner rear fender...the drop in access floor pan at the drivers floor and likely rear trunk corners and maybe even trunk lip damage on the inner stiffener panel.  The inner rockers suffer greatly, outer rockers and lower door skin and the body that is behind the door and under the rear window.  The door opening at the rear where it curves up also seem to like to rot out.   Also sadly the crossties that support the body and tie the rockers left to right take a hit as these are reversed bend of what could have prevented this damage if flipped in production.  

Good advice on the online panel purchase....not sure if I'll go that route or not again--but have looked at body braces that are relatively affordable and would save me time if purchased vs. fabbed.  Thanks for the breakdown on problem areas--most if not all are accurate with my car sadly lol.  Doggone MI road salt.... 

[D35 Torpedo]

I to have a 50 fastback. Mine will need rockers soon as well. I plan on doing the inners at the same time. My plan was to remove the body mount bolts on one side, loosen them on the other. Then jack half the body off the frame to do the repairs. Rinse and repeat to do the other side. I suggest welding in some braces to keep it from distorting. Good luck! A little every day goes a long way.

[bartenderfloyd]

I had a lot of pics in my rebuild thread here.

I have lots more pics I didn't post so let me know if you need more.

[vintage6t]

I'm not sure this is helpful but this is for a 51-52 Plymouth 4 Door. Should at least give you an idea how the body is constructed.

[vintage6t]

[50Fastback]

On 3/28/2023 at 8:30 AM, bartenderfloyd said:

I had a lot of pics in my rebuild thread here.

I have lots more pics I didn't post so let me know if you need more.

Very helpful--thanks!

[50Fastback]

On 3/28/2023 at 7:02 PM, vintage6t said:

Very useful, thanks--it does give a nice visual two work with, even down to an idea of how many/where beads are needed in the floor panels.  

[50Fastback]

On 3/27/2023 at 1:33 AM, D35 Torpedo said:

I to have a 50 fastback. Mine will need rockers soon as well. I plan on doing the inners at the same time. My plan was to remove the body mount bolts on one side, loosen them on the other. Then jack half the body off the frame to do the repairs. Rinse and repeat to do the other side. I suggest welding in some braces to keep it from distorting. Good luck! A little every day goes a long way.

Nice looking fastback!  I saw some pics of your car but it looked like your outers were solid at a glance, but I know these cars can hide secrets.  Curious about your idea to jack up one half of the body (which will be easy for me since half my body mounts don't connect to anything anymore haha)....are you doing this so that you can have access to the top of the frame for rust removal/painting or another reason?  Also, can you do this without having to remove the steering column or without distorting panels that tie into the firewall?  

[D35 Torpedo]

5 hours ago, 50Fastback said:

Nice looking fastback!  I saw some pics of your car but it looked like your outers were solid at a glance, but I know these cars can hide secrets.  Curious about your idea to jack up one half of the body (which will be easy for me since half my body mounts don't connect to anything anymore haha)....are you doing this so that you can have access to the top of the frame for rust removal/painting or another reason?  Also, can you do this without having to remove the steering column or without distorting panels that tie into the firewall?  

Thanks. Yea when the car was repainted way back when, the P.O. did some questionble body work on the rockers. Id like to set it right. I've done it before to repair and replace body mounts without completely separating the body from frame. Every car has its own challenges. I think if the column was unbolted from the dash, and floor panel removed, there would be enough room to lift the body. Worse case at that point, just unbolt the box and let it dangle on the tie rods. Can't forget the front clip. Probably easiest to remove just the rad support bolts.

[50Fastback]

Well I successfully removed the entire front clip (grill, inner/outer fenders, the panels that sit to either side of the rad support).  This is going to make some rewiring and body work easier, especially the "firewall" area behind the front tires....those are gone completely.  Found some bondo on bottom of fenders that I didn't know about too.  My question for the future is--what is prescribed order in putting the front clip BACK on?  Wondering if doing it in a certain order tends to result in better alignment of things?

Edited April 8, 2023 by 50Fastback