New to me 1950 Plymouth Special Deluxe

[SuckerPunchLtd]

Hey all!  Been reading some build threads and y’all have some impressive stuff going on.

 

I just got a new to me 1950 Plymouth Special Deluxe and am

going to use this thread to track progress as I get it from current state, to a local small town daily to a rebuilt beauty.

 

a bit of back story - the car has been in the family since about 1997-1998 having been picked up from a dealership who used it for a parts runner for years before parking it.  We changed the oil and tires and drove it 150 miles and gave it to my dad.  We paid $300.
 

 Dad drove it daily up until about 7-8 years ago and parked and worked on other projects, well now that he’s retired and finishing his 64 Plymouth Sport Fury I have taken possession of the 50.

 

The good is body has minimal rust, all chrome present albeit some damaged, so minimal body work required, need to check floor pan, rockers etc.  needs all weather striping and fuzzies some other odds and ends electrical and cosmetic.
 

The bad, the engine and 3 speed were pulled and sold.  So first item

of business is cleaning, degreasing engine compartment and rebuilding front suspension while motor is out.  Then finding a motor and transmission, haven’t decided if I’ll find flathead or go different route yet.

 

anyway thanks for letting me post I’ll get some pics next day or two of my starting point.

[Sniper]

There is a guy of facebook giving away a core Plymouth flathead

 

https://www.facebook.com/commerce/listing/613905179627680/?ref=share_attachment

[Booger]

do the right thing and keep it a flatty

we need pictures...

[SuckerPunchLtd]

4 hours ago, Sniper said:

There is a guy of facebook giving away a core Plymouth flathead

 

https://www.facebook.com/commerce/listing/613905179627680/?ref=share_attachment

Thank you can’t get it to load on my mobile will try when I’m off work.

[plymouthcranbrook]

In all honesty when folks try to modify/modernize an older car to any great extent they tend to run into a lot of trouble and if you are not really skilled in working on cars you can make mistakes that will affect the ride and drivability. The engineers who designed it all those many years ago knew what they were doing. They matched engines to suspensions to brakes and came up with a good working car. That said some changes make sense(disc brakes for example)or dual master cylinder can make sense if you feel safer with them  depending on how you are going to drive it. Keep it mostly stock also delivers the experience of seeing how cars were in the past and just enjoying the difference between them and modern cars. I am some what of a purist but I have made some changes to my car for drivability and replace some items that just were unobtainium.  Engines and transmissions are out there as Sniper has said and often not to terribly expensive. Nice thing about Early Mopars is that the fact that since they don't have the draw of Ford and GM so it you do go to a show you won't see a long line of your car unlike for example, 57 Chevies. Keep us informed about your progress. Many here have done a lot of work on theirs and can really help you if you ask.

[SuckerPunchLtd]

1 hour ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

In all honesty when folks try to modify/modernize an older car to any great extent they tend to run into a lot of trouble and if you are not really skilled in working on cars you can make mistakes that will affect the ride and drivability. The engineers who designed it all those many years ago knew what they were doing. They matched engines to suspensions to brakes and came up with a good working car. That said some changes make sense(disc brakes for example)or dual master cylinder can make sense if you feel safer with them  depending on how you are going to drive it. Keep it mostly stock also delivers the experience of seeing how cars were in the past and just enjoying the difference between them and modern cars. I am some what of a purist but I have made some changes to my car for drivability and replace some items that just were unobtainium.  Engines and transmissions are out there as Sniper has said and often not to terribly expensive. Nice thing about Early Mopars is that the fact that since they don't have the draw of Ford and GM so it you do go to a show you won't see a long line of your car unlike for example, 57 Chevies. Keep us informed about your progress. Many here have done a lot of work on theirs and can really help you if you ask.

I have a great resource in my dad.  He’s done several show winning studebaker trucks retro fitted with 5.7 hemis, old power wagons, chevelles, his sport fury with a 383 stroker.  All frame up builds with tons of fabrication process.  I’ve helped on several - his latest was a 48 Ford with a 2015 twin turbo ecoboost engine with matching factory electronic transmission, narrowed rear end with triangulated 4 link, MII front suspension all digital dash, electric power steering, ac, etc. so I have resources of years of knowledge, also access to tools of all kinds, upholsters, body/paint in the ecosystem he’s built the past 15-20 years.

 

That said, I’m keeping this simple to start to get it driving - rebuilding/replacing stock suspension with stock parts and such.  Then after I have it running as daily in a small town (think nothing over 25-30mph) I’ll plan the full build.

 

pic of 4 of his builds - 36 dodge power wagon, his 64 sport fury, dodge truck and an old studebaker.

Edited May 1, 2022 by SuckerPunchLtd

[Sniper]

3 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

The engineers who designed it all those many years ago knew what they were doing.

 

Hmm, I would tend to disagree a little bit here.  An example, my 51 Cambridge has horrible bumpsteer.  Part of that is the extremely short driver's side tie rod assembly and overly long passenger side assembly.  Chryslers and Desotos of that era had equal length setups.  Obviously they knew that the bumpsteer issue was there and addressed it for the high end cars, but let Plymouth swing in the breeze.  Another example is the floaty McBoaty ride quality.  A lot of that was due to how they located the upper shock mount.  Earlier Mopars didn't do that and towards the end of this suspension design's lifespan they relocated the shock and upper mount to address it.

 

So while the engineer's may have known things they didn't always address them.  Maybe it was the bean counters or the perceived market for the vehicle, i.e. cheap Plymouth owners get basic engineering.  This doesn't even touch on the changes in automotive engineering that those engineers back in the day had no clue about.  Nor does it take into account the traffic environment of today where even the cheapest box on wheels sold today can out accelerate, out stop and out handle our stuff.  Too bad driver quality hasn't improved to match.  I could go on about that but we all have seen it so I won't, lol.

[SuckerPunchLtd]

7 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Part of that is the extremely short driver's side tie rod assembly and overly long passenger side assembly.  Chryslers and Desotos of that era had equal length setups.

Which is why I will eventually do a full MII independent front suspension, already priced and planned, with power rack and pinion along with triangulated 4 link rear end.

 

For now the original works in my small rural area.  I have driven this exact vehicle at modern two lane speeds of 55-65mph, it’s a challenge, fun all the same, and unless one knows it for what it is, it’s a safety issue for most modern day drivers.

 

That said, you have some valid points.  My end goal is to drive I-25 in Denver or worse I-4 in Orlando.

So yeah some suspension and more will be modernized.  For now it’s a small town driver project.

 

 

[Loren]

I love automobiles, always have.

My view of what makes an "interesting" car is far different from most people.

I spent a lot of my youth as a dealer mechanic, so my view is effected by that.

My cars tend to be period correct within 5 years and are what a dealer mechanic would build for themselves.

A dealer mechanic would put the best stuff from the MoPar parts book on their car, usually the lightest car with components from the bigger cars.

That focuses on what was possible in the day.

That I find entertaining.

If I were doing an engine swap in my Plymouth it would be a 265 Chrysler flathead 6. (got one almost ready to go in my Suburban)

Or if I really got kinky perhaps a Perkins Diesel as the factory did. (and only because the factory did and I happen to like diesel engines)

 

It pains me greatly to hear folks doing "swaps" of well designed original components and in the process creating new problems for which they have no solutions. I've seen cars that could be driven and enjoyed laid up seemingly forever with projects that were well beyond the skills of the owners.

It just seems to be a word to the wise that if it isn't broke don't fix it. Keep it simple. You'll get to enjoy more time with your car in motion.

There is a certain "charm" to an old car. Seems a shame to change a car so much that it no longer has that charm.

If one wants a car to perform like a Mercedes, perhaps they should buy a Mercedes. Sure seems like a lot less work. I mean just sayn'.

A 49 Plymouth is never going to drive like a modern car or even a premium car of its era. That's what you sign up for when you get one.

That's the charm of it. That's what I love about it.

I want the best example of what it could have been back in its day.

I want the car Lee Petty drove to work everyday.

That's what seems like fun to me.

Call me a purist, but do not call me an engineer, I don't qualify or pretend to.

 

 

[SuckerPunchLtd]

4 minutes ago, Loren said:

I love automobiles, always have.

My view of what makes an "interesting" car is far different from most people.

I spent a lot of my youth as a dealer mechanic, so my view is effected by that.

My cars tend to be period correct within 5 years and are what a dealer mechanic would build for themselves.

A dealer mechanic would put the best stuff from the MoPar parts book on their car, usually the lightest car with components from the bigger cars.

That focuses on what was possible in the day.

That I find entertaining.

If I were doing an engine swap in my Plymouth it would be a 265 Chrysler flathead 6. (got one almost ready to go in my Suburban)

Or if I really got kinky perhaps a Perkins Diesel as the factory did. (and only because the factory did and I happen to like diesel engines)

 

It pains me greatly to hear folks doing "swaps" of well designed original components and in the process creating new problems for which they have no solutions. I've seen cars that could be driven and enjoyed laid up seemingly forever with projects that were well beyond the skills of the owners.

It just seems to be a word to the wise that if it isn't broke don't fix it. Keep it simple. You'll get to enjoy more time with your car in motion.

There is a certain "charm" to an old car. Seems a shame to change a car so much that it no longer has that charm.

If one wants a car to perform like a Mercedes, perhaps they should buy a Mercedes. Sure seems like a lot less work. I mean just sayn'.

A 49 Plymouth is never going to drive like a modern car or even a premium car of its era. That's what you sign up for when you get one.

That's the charm of it. That's what I love about it.

I want the best example of what it could have been back in its day.

I want the car Lee Petty drove to work everyday.

That's what seems like fun to me.

Call me a purist, but do not call me an engineer, I don't qualify or pretend to.

 

 

Love this reply!

 

hence my idea of as much as how it was built to make a small town daily of it.

 

should I decide otherwise, that’s on me.

 

I see potential both ways.

[SuckerPunchLtd]

Starting Canvas

[SuckerPunchLtd]

Starting Canvas part 2 

[Sniper]

Looks solid, good luck.

[TravisL17]

With the front end sitting high due to no engine/trans and the front bumper being off, it screams potential gasser! But with a flathead in it. Old school speed equipment, isky cam, straight front axle etc! It wouldn't be the fastest car on the strip, but it'd be a fun challenge to see how far you could go with it.

[SuckerPunchLtd]

9 minutes ago, TravisL17 said:

With the front end sitting high due to no engine/trans and the front bumper being off, it screams potential gasser! But with a flathead in it. Old school speed equipment, isky cam, straight front axle etc! It wouldn't be the fastest car on the strip, but it'd be a fun challenge to see how far you could go with it.

Our neighbor said that first thing - make a gasser out of it!

[soth122003]

I'm with the realists on this. These cars are great when in the original condition and are fun to drive and be looked at. That being said, if you have the skills and the money, it's your car. Also in regards to the Interstate, not a chance in hell I'd take my P-15 on them even if it had a 455 with an OD tranny disk brakes nitrious and what ever else to make it handle, go fast and stop. Part of it is my age (62 is not that old) but the other lunatics out there. No matter what speed you drive at there are the ones who go 1 MPH slower than you and the ones who tailgate and don't get me started on the Big Rigs. All in all these cars were built when the drive from point A to point B was to enjoy the trip and see the country.

 

My Dad lives in northern Al. and if I drive the I-65 to see him it takes about 6 hours. When I get there I am tired and stressed from the drive. Now I take the U.S. highway system. It takes about 7 1/2 hours and I'm just a little tired from the drive. But the trip is kinda relaxing. Seeing the sights and smelling the country side (fresh cut hay, pines from the log trucks and of course the occasional skunk). Also the traffic is lighter and not as congested, unlike the pot luck with the interstate where a wreck can add anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours to your trip and no way to get out of it. On time it took 5 hours to get from Montgomery to Birmingham (78 miles and on my motorcycle) due to traffic. 

 

Sorry for the rant. Anyway time + skill + money= the car you want. It's your car enjoy the way you want to. From the looks of your dads cars he and you have the skill and money to make them look good. (and they look great). Can't stand the people who turn these cars into crap and think they are all that and a bag of chips. Case in point when people put those wagon wheels on cars UUUGGGGLLLYY, Lowriders on the other hand pretty damn cool,  but maybe I'm old fashioned.

 

Joe Lee

[SuckerPunchLtd]

29 minutes ago, soth122003 said:

I'm with the realists on this. These cars are great when in the original condition and are fun to drive and be looked at. That being said, if you have the skills and the money, it's your car. Also in regards to the Interstate, not a chance in hell I'd take my P-15 on them even if it had a 455 with an OD tranny disk brakes nitrious and what ever else to make it handle, go fast and stop. Part of it is my age (62 is not that old) but the other lunatics out there. No matter what speed you drive at there are the ones who go 1 MPH slower than you and the ones who tailgate and don't get me started on the Big Rigs. All in all these cars were built when the drive from point A to point B was to enjoy the trip and see the country.

 

My Dad lives in northern Al. and if I drive the I-65 to see him it takes about 6 hours. When I get there I am tired and stressed from the drive. Now I take the U.S. highway system. It takes about 7 1/2 hours and I'm just a little tired from the drive. But the trip is kinda relaxing. Seeing the sights and smelling the country side (fresh cut hay, pines from the log trucks and of course the occasional skunk). Also the traffic is lighter and not as congested, unlike the pot luck with the interstate where a wreck can add anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours to your trip and no way to get out of it. On time it took 5 hours to get from Montgomery to Birmingham (78 miles and on my motorcycle) due to traffic. 

 

Sorry for the rant. Anyway time + skill + money= the car you want. It's your car enjoy the way you want to. From the looks of your dads cars he and you have the skill and money to make them look good. (and they look great). Can't stand the people who turn these cars into crap and think they are all that and a bag of chips. Case in point when people put those wagon wheels on cars UUUGGGGLLLYY, Lowriders on the other hand pretty damn cool,  but maybe I'm old fashioned.

 

Joe Lee

Rant forgiven, lol.

 

my end goal is to have a good rural/semi-rural driver that once I move back to Florida will do well to hit up Daytona, Clearwater, Tampa/Orlando areas, which even backroads demands decent driving performance and power etc.  

 

for now it’s a plan for basic driver in a small Colorado town. 
 

In the end I desire a unique car that is driven to the car shows, hot rod nights and not some trailered, pampered never ran/driven type of deal.

Edited May 1, 2022 by SuckerPunchLtd

[SuckerPunchLtd]

May 11 - first day working on the car.  Lots of cleaning off of piles of oil & grease on the frame, realizing wiring is shot, and it has some major leaks into the interior.  Since the engine is non-existent, cleaned all inside of the engine area with putty knives to remove all the caked on goop.  Tomorrow will be to get some degreaser and pressure wash it.

 

Lots of parts being spec'd and ordered this week to begin, mostly to get the cabin sealed up so it isn't leaking so I can do any floor pan work needed, then rip out the interior without worry about it getting soaking wet.

 

I will upset (aka piss off) many of you, however I have chosen the 1969 Datsun engine with 4 speed transmission for the power plant - out of a 280z.  Any modifications to fit the engine and transmission should be minimal and should be reversible, according to my father who has over 20 builds under his belt.  My neighbor (who has been in the car restromod biz as long as my dad) has a similar setup in an old school rod build which performs surprising well and hooked me up with the engine, transmission, radiator and driveline (driveline for parts as yokes/joints will be fabricated/modified) for the right price.  It will be getting either twin 2 barrels or a single 4 barrel carb, along with a slight cam and put out about 170-190hp when done.  

 

Total cost so far on the build is $850.

[Loren]

That's what I call imagination!

I'd walk across a parking lot to see that. Chevy V8 not so much.

I've known guys with 240, 260, 280Z cars and they were all reliable long lasting engines. Surrounding one with 1950 Plymouth iron is a major improvement (to the engine. Datsuns were shall we say somewhat light weight). One guy I knew put about 250,000 miles on one in a surprisingly short time.

Kind of reminds me of what the Cuban "Automovilistas" were forced to do when the original engines in their cars wore out.

Maybe there's a name for your car, "El Cubano"

It certainly will be the only one like it (outside of Cuba) and that accounts for something!

I like it!

 

Thank God you didn't choose another boring Chevy V8!

[Art Bailey]

10 hours ago, SuckerPunchLtd said:

May 11 - first day working on the car.  Lots of cleaning off of piles of oil & grease on the frame, realizing wiring is shot, and it has some major leaks into the interior.  Since the engine is non-existent, cleaned all inside of the engine area with putty knives to remove all the caked on goop.  Tomorrow will be to get some degreaser and pressure wash it.

 

Lots of parts being spec'd and ordered this week to begin, mostly to get the cabin sealed up so it isn't leaking so I can do any floor pan work needed, then rip out the interior without worry about it getting soaking wet.

 

I will upset (aka piss off) many of you, however I have chosen the 1969 Datsun engine with 4 speed transmission for the power plant - out of a 280z.  Any modifications to fit the engine and transmission should be minimal and should be reversible, according to my father who has over 20 builds under his belt.  My neighbor (who has been in the car restromod biz as long as my dad) has a similar setup in an old school rod build which performs surprising well and hooked me up with the engine, transmission, radiator and driveline (driveline for parts as yokes/joints will be fabricated/modified) for the right price.  It will be getting either twin 2 barrels or a single 4 barrel carb, along with a slight cam and put out about 170-190hp when done.  

 

Total cost so far on the build is $850.

Nice starting point!  I wouldn't worry about who you're pissing off, I for one am always super impressed with hot rodding ingenuity. I'm really interested to see how this turns out!

[TravisL17]

Talk about a small world! You're putting a Datsun Z powertrain in a Plymouth and I've got a 240Z in my shop getting put back together after being painted Plymouth's Sassy Grass Green! Looks like people can't be mad about your choice since these 2 projects basically balance each other out!

[Sniper]

Somewhere there is a Z car with a Plymouth 201 in it, lol.

 

 

[SuckerPunchLtd]

Front clip off, more degreasing done, floor mat ripped out and some progress.

 

need to remove column shifter and linkage next since I’m going with floor shift, got control arm rebuild kit on order sheet ($340 for all 4) since I’m sticking with factory front suspension setup and get some more cleaning inside and pull seats to truly see how much sheet metal I’m going to need to replace in the cabin.

 

Still a pretty solid base starter in my view.

 

 

[Sniper]

I would suggest you consider the upper shock mount relocation for the front shocks.  they are real floaty as originally designed.

 

A cpuple of threads on this

 

 

Last one

 

 

 

 

[OUTFXD]

Man,  I am JEALOUS of your dashboard!  She looks like she has great bones!  Minimal Rust and mostly straight body panels. Gonna be a GREAT project! Welcome aboard!