12v Starter Solenoid in a 6v car.

[Sniper]

Wish I was closer, we'd get to the bottom of it.

[Bryan]

Not clicking and trying to turn over is an improvement.   So, when you tried cranking it back home, and you said it would barely turn over, you mean without using the 12V to jump it.   Don't know much about starters, but does anyone know if the guy rebuilding it could have replaced something like the windings and thought it was a 12V?  It would check out good (like a 12V starter) but not work with 6V? Just shooting in the dark.

[Sniper]

You know, we did a good job of looking at the voltage drop on the supply side, not so much the return.  On my engine the battery ground cable attaches to the water pump, the water pump is attached to the block, the block to the bell housing then the starter to the bell housing.  Any or all of that might be suspect.  Can you get a jumper cable and hook the starter mounting bolt to the positive battery terminal (positive ground, right?)  This would temporarily add another ground to the starter.

[Bryan]

I have my 6V starter off the 48 Dodge in the shed. 30 yrs ago it worked.  Tomorrow I'll go measure the ohms terminal to terminal, terminals to ground and see what I get.

[OUTFXD]

I tried jumping the solenoid and my jumper cables tried to weld themselves to the solenoid. (Lots of Sparkage)

3 hours ago, Sniper said:

You know, we did a good job of looking at the voltage drop on the supply side, not so much the return.  On my engine the battery ground cable attaches to the water pump, the water pump is attached to the block, the block to the bell housing then the starter to the bell housing.  Any or all of that might be suspect.  Can you get a jumper cable and hook the starter mounting bolt to the positive battery terminal (positive ground, right?)  This would temporarily add another ground to the starter.

My Battery-ground is currently hooked to the bolt that holds the Coil Bracket assembly.  My Starter-ground was hooked to a different bolt.  Last weekend I moved the starter-ground to the same bolt as the Battery-ground.  My thinking was that this would effectively make a straight ground-connection from Battery to starter.

[OUTFXD]

I cant help but feel the starter is still the issue.  I am looking for a different shop to test my starter.

[Bryan]

Went and measured it. MAW 4041 starter.  Only has one terminal. My digital ohm meter shows 0.3 Ohms when touching both leads together.  Always gets 0.6 from starter terminal to any shiny place I rub on body, so I assumed 0.3 Ohms . 

As I mentioned, hasn't run in 30 yrs.

 

 

 

[SteveR]

Just wondering when your starter was rebuilt, was it rewound? If so was it wound for 12vdc instead of 6vdc?

[SteveR]

what engages the pinion gear to the flywheel. My 37 Plymouth is accomplished by my foot. Or is there a sol on your starter as in modern cars? If you are just pushing a button to turn the engine that would indicate a sol on the starter if it will not start but just click I would look at that sol not the one in the engine compartment.

[Sniper]

Out of curiosity, did the shop test your starter with 6v or 12?

[OUTFXD]

On 2/16/2022 at 4:57 AM, SteveR said:

Just wondering when your starter was rebuilt, was it rewound? If so was it wound for 12vdc instead of 6vdc?

 

On 2/16/2022 at 7:14 AM, Sniper said:

Out of curiosity, did the shop test your starter with 6v or 12?

Both times I took the starter in I made sure to stress that it was not only 6v but also Positive ground. I am pretty sure the guy tested it on 6v.

[Bryan]

With the cable off the terminal did you check the resistance ohms?

[OUTFXD]

Not sure what you mean.  Resistance across the starter?

[Bryan]

4 hours ago, OUTFXD said:

Not sure what you mean.  Resistance across the starter?

One lead on the terminal, one lead on any ground on the starter body.  Multimeter set on Ohms for resistance at the low scale (usually 200).   

[OUTFXD]

9 minutes ago, Bryan said:

One lead on the terminal, one lead on any ground on the starter body.  Multimeter set on Ohms for resistance at the low scale (usually 200).   

I will try to check that for you in the morning!

[OUTFXD]

12 hours ago, Bryan said:

One lead on the terminal, one lead on any ground on the starter body.  Multimeter set on Ohms for resistance at the low scale (usually 200).   

Un hooked the battery,  Pulled the lead off the starter terminal. set up a multimeter the way you said. 

 

Ohmagge across starter to ground (with multimeter set to 200)   1.3.  It took a while to for the meter to "Settle" and it kept jumping up to (max) 3.2 .

 

What does this mean?  No clue.

[Bryan]

15 minutes ago, OUTFXD said:

Un hooked the battery,  Pulled the lead off the starter terminal. set up a multimeter the way you said. 

 

Ohmagge across starter to ground (with multimeter set to 200)   1.3.  It took a while to for the meter to "Settle" and it kept jumping up to (max) 3.2 .

 

What does this mean?  No clue.

Don't know but my 6V starter MAW 4041 was reading 0.3 Ohms.  Jumping readings just means you have to rub a shiny place with the leads for good connection.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Bryan

[maok]

Have your solenoid checked out by the auto electrician, your starter is fine 

[SteveR]

Have you tried cleaning the contacts of your sol with an emery cloth?

[OUTFXD]

17 minutes ago, SteveR said:

Have you tried cleaning the contacts of your sol with an emery cloth?

 

25 minutes ago, maok said:

Have your solenoid checked out by the auto electrician, your starter is fine 

 

I cant say I have cleaned the contacts on the old solonoid. I have replaced the solenoid with two different new ones.  The second one I got all new nuts and washers for.  the One that came on the car is the only one that will turn the engine over.  The others just "Click" rapidly.

[kencombs]

Measure the coil resistance of all three soleniods, little terminal to case ground.   Just grasping at straws.  Maybe the new ones are not really 12v coils.  If they are very different resistances than the old one that will tell you.  

[SteveR]

I can't help but think this is something simple

[SteveR]

On 2/11/2022 at 11:14 PM, OUTFXD said:

When the spark plugs are removed,  the engine spins freely,  accompanied by the now familier rapid clicking.

On my 37 starter, I had to replace the brushes and turn the commutator. There are 4 brushes in there. I find it suspect that it will turn with no load but when load is applied it just clicks.

Are you setting 6vdc at the contacts and then at the starter? if so then the starter would be in question

If you are not getting 6vdc at the output of the contacts but do get it at the input side, the Starter sol is in question

If you are not getting your 6vdc at the starter but are getting it at the contacts then the cable is in question

Have you tried to bypass the sol and run your 6vdc directly to the starter?

[chrysler1941]

For now forget solenoid and ohms. If you cannot turn your starter with two fingers, it's dragging. It's a common failure of rebuilds.  Must be almost as easy to turn as generator.

[OUTFXD]

23 hours ago, kencombs said:

Measure the coil resistance of all three soleniods, little terminal to case ground.

on the OLD solenoid (The one on the car)  I got 2.0 ohm on the lowest setting.

 

The NEW solenoid didnt register at all from Little terminal to case. However it was not installed at the time.  Not sure if that makes any difference.