Too many newbie questions

[neonhorse]

Some of these have already been answered, but I cant find the answers searching through here.

I just bought a 51 Plymouth Cranbrook. It is kind of a project, ratrod type of thing The guy that had it before me passed away and i bought it from the estate and they knew nothing about it. It sat for about the last 8  months because the family had no idea what to do with it.

It has been lowered, and it has an automatic transmission conversion. 

Now, the questions: 

the engine says P25, and it looks like a 1954 manufacture date. Is this a 218 or a 230? It is a 23" head. Assuming the engine and trans originally came together, what is this transmission? Reverse seems to be all the way forward, then neutral and drive pulling the stick towards the rear of the car.

It was not running when I got it. The plug wires seemed to be in the wrong order. It would not fire at all with the order i looked up for 51 plymouths, 153624. Then after some research, i found another firing order, 1, 4.2,6,3,5.. This made it run. But it still runs badly. It will barely come off of idle without misfiring and or dying. I have a new cap, rotor, points, wires and plugs that all came with the car and i installed. 

Sorry for all the questions.

[kencombs]

The firing order was correct, What you changed to is the same order but backwards.  So it was probably just wired at the wrong distributor rotation.  i

 

It's really hard to diagnose running issues long distance.  Could be anything, especially since it has be out of action for so long.  I'd start with the basics, compression test, (wet and dry), valve adjustment,  recheck point setting, take the top off the carb and make sure the enrichment valve works and it's clean.

 

You say is has an auto trans conversion.  Do you  mean a replacement trans ? If so, could be anything.  If you are only talking about the shifter and assuming the trans and engine where originally matched, it is a Powerflite and 230.  A very good two speed full auto.

 

[Booger]

51 Cran is a P23 and a stock 218

so sayeth the bible

[keithb7]

With #1 piston at TDC, where abouts is the rotor pointed to? Plug #1 plug wire at the rotor ? Imagine the face of a clock. Position #1 should be about the 7:00 position. Is the system wired for positive ground? Each plug wire after #1, track them to their spark plug locations. What are they? 1, 5, 3, 6, 2,4?

 

The positive wire at the coil, does it have a wire traveling to the distributor cap, at the side? Ultimately hooked to the breaker points? Is the condenser wired up properly? See any sings of line cracking or carbon tracking inside the distributor cap? Rotor tip and inside cap free of corrosion? IS the small spring and carbon tip still in place in the centre of the distributor cap? It rides on the centre of the rotor.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by keithb7

[JBNeal]

additional information - Reference

additional information - Maintenance

additional information - Tech Tips

additional information - Enhancements

[Booger]

JB! this is a necessary addendum to all Chrysler service Manuals Nice work

[Dodgeb4ya]

The engine trans (P25) probably is a 1954 230 with the cast iron 2 speed Poweflite.

[kencombs]

4 hours ago, michaelmarks697@yahoo.com said:

51 Cran is a P23 and a stock 218

so sayeth the bible

First post indicates that it does not have the original engine.

[Bryan G]

What kind of shape is the gas in? If it has ethanol 8 months is getting sketchy, and if the fuel is a lot older than that it probably isn't helping anything.

[JerseyHarold]

Does the Powerflite transmission get its oil from the engine oiling system like the HyDrive ( a semi-automatic transmission offered by Plymouth in 1953-54) or is it self contained and use ATF?  If it uses engine oil, be aware that engine oil changes take a lot of oil (like 10-12 quarts)!

[kencombs]

5 hours ago, JerseyHarold said:

Does the Powerflite transmission get its oil from the engine oiling system like the HyDrive ( a semi-automatic transmission offered by Plymouth in 1953-54) or is it self contained and use ATF?  If it uses engine oil, be aware that engine oil changes take a lot of oil (like 10-12 quarts)!

Nope to the shared oil.  PF used ATF and is a really good trans.  Just lacking more speeds for modern driving.  I had one behind a 354 hemi in a Ford pickup for a while before changing to a TF.  Sorta like a Chevy Powerglide but better.  Stronger and more multiplication in the converter.  Only weakness was the reverse band apply link.  They could be broken when rocking to free a stuck vehicle.  DAMHIKT

[neonhorse]

21 hours ago, Bryan G said:

What kind of shape is the gas in? If it has ethanol 8 months is getting sketchy, and if the fuel is a lot older than that it probably isn't helping anything.

It has a new gas tank in it. I was the first one to put gas in. 

[neonhorse]

On 5/1/2021 at 4:03 PM, keithb7 said:

With #1 piston at TDC, where abouts is the rotor pointed to? Plug #1 plug wire at the rotor ? Imagine the face of a clock. Position #1 should be about the 7:00 position. Is the system wired for positive ground? Each plug wire after #1, track them to their spark plug locations. What are they? 1, 5, 3, 6, 2,4?

 

The positive wire at the coil, does it have a wire traveling to the distributor cap, at the side? Ultimately hooked to the breaker points? Is the condenser wired up properly? See any sings of line cracking or carbon tracking inside the distributor cap? Rotor tip and inside cap free of corrosion? IS the small spring and carbon tip still in place in the centre of the distributor cap? It rides on the centre of the rotor.

 

 

yes, 1 is at the 7:00 position. I have even tried advancing and moving back all the wires one position. with both firing orders. I have swapped it 180 out just in case. This is the only way i have been able to get it to run at all. new clean cap, rotor and condensor. I did have some ground problems at first, but got that sorted out. 

Also, it has been converted to 12v negative ground. 

[keithb7]

You're on the right track. However as soon as you said 12V negative ground, I'm out. Pretty much any advice from me is not valid. Sorry can't offer much. My experience with these electrical systems in the old Mopars is with the stock system exclusively.  Good luck, you'll get it. Keep at it.

[neonhorse]

On 5/1/2021 at 4:03 PM, keithb7 said:

With #1 piston at TDC, where abouts is the rotor pointed to? Plug #1 plug wire at the rotor ? Imagine the face of a clock. Position #1 should be about the 7:00 position. Is the system wired for positive ground? Each plug wire after #1, track them to their spark plug locations. What are they? 1, 5, 3, 6, 2,4?

 

The positive wire at the coil, does it have a wire traveling to the distributor cap, at the side? Ultimately hooked to the breaker points? Is the condenser wired up properly? See any sings of line cracking or carbon tracking inside the distributor cap? Rotor tip and inside cap free of corrosion? IS the small spring and carbon tip still in place in the centre of the distributor cap? It rides on the centre of the rotor.

 

 

yes, 1 is at the 7:00 position. I have even tried advancing and moving back all the wires one position. with both firing orders. I have swapped it 180 out just in case. This is the only way i have been able to get it to run at all. new clean cap, rotor and condensor. I did have some ground problems at first, but got that sorted out. 

Also, it has been converted to 12v negative ground. 

[neonhorse]

OK, I am starting to get it to run right. I have been able to get the RPMs up a bit now. I can actually move the car around under its own power now.  If the firing order is clockwise, then it is the 153624. But i thought the distributor turned CCW in these. 

[keithb7]

Nope. You got 'er now. 7 o'clock as seen in my photo. That's #1. Then 5,3,6,2,4. Clockwise.