'52 wayfarer engine swap

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, eddie spaghetti said:

Anybody know what vehicles came with the non-electronic A518 transmission ( I believe this is the correct designation,  it is a 727 with an overdrive 4th)?

 I think this would be ok for the 331 that I want to stick into the wayfarer.

Many have said to s---can the fluid drive.

Nothing wrong with the fluid drive as far as reliability or function. The big draw backs are it's heavy (so what?) and it's only a 2 speed. If all you are going to do is just drive and enjoy the car,there is nothing wrong with it. Keeping it could save you some serious bucks,too.

[Plymouthy Adams]

dadota, trucks and b series vans...never made it to the passenger car...look for an RH descriptor..

[wayfarer]

https://www.bing.com/search?q=torqueflite+wikipedia&form=ANNTH1&refig=ddc1517c42f64f27a351a0bb53ec452f&sp=1&qs=SC&pq=torqueflight+wiki&sk=PRES1&sc=1-17&cvid=ddc1517c42f64f27a351a0bb53ec452f

 

As to the fitment in the car, this is a similar project  https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/54-331-hemi-rebuild.738468/page-4

The body/frame/install work starts at post 97

[PurpleHse]

reading the posts for engine swaps in 50's dodge.Mopar V8's create width/offset issues and associated trannies create tunnel issues...Have been looking at the 3.6 Penstar V6. 60 degree vs 90 makes it narrower, roughly 1/2 the length , might be able to bring it forward an help with tunnel..anyones opinion welcome..Have 1950 Wayfare....also considering a 318/340, but being a GM guy, I need help with tranny info(automatic) that relates to the V8's..Tks

[Dartgame]

Purple - the easiest auto trans to use is either a 904 or a 727 torqueflite with a 273/318/340/360. These were used for 30 years or more in mopars, lots of them around in bone yards and in the aftermarket with reman and hipo units. Refer to Plymouthy's post for later model units with overdrive.

[Sniper]

Technically, all of the 727/904's with the OD added have some form of electronic control.  The OD itself has always been electronically controlled.  But the early versions that are still hydraulically shifted for the 1, 2 and 3 can substitute a toggle switch to control OD, but you are replacing the electronics that normally so that with yourself.  there are a couple of vendors, or there were anyway, that have kits to do that automatically.

[Plymouthy Adams]

16 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Technically, all of the 727/904's with the OD added have some form of electronic control.  The OD itself has always been electronically controlled.  But the early versions that are still hydraulically shifted for the 1, 2 and 3 can substitute a toggle switch to control OD, but you are replacing the electronics that normally so that with yourself.  there are a couple of vendors, or there were anyway, that have kits to do that automatically.

negative....the early 500 and 518 are RH which is rear wheel hydraulic NOT electronic but yes electrical....both lockup and OD but does not need a computer or controller just simple 12 volt 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Plymouthy Adams

[Sniper]

10 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

negative....the early 500 and 518 are RH which is rear wheel hydraulic NOT electronic but yes electrical....both lockup and OD but does not need a computer or controller just simple 12 volt 

 

You know not of what you speak.  In it's stock setup the OD and lockup, if it has lock up, is controlled by the computer and that is electronic.  To use either in a swap you need to figure out how to replace that control with something else.

 

Your idea is like using a light switch to replace the remote to control your smart TV.  Yeah, it may work, but what a waste of functionality.

[Adam H P15 D30]

There are 2 types of early, non computer controlled, 518s.  The first is a non lock up version that requires 2 wires to engage OD.  It uses a standard 727 converter and is probably the one I would look for because of that.  Shortly after the lock up version came out requiring 3 wires, one for OD and another for lock up.  Slightly less desirable because the lack of converter choices.  Neither of these transmissions require a computer to be fully automatic, it can easily be done with a vacuum and pressure switch.  My non lock up version uses a simple pressure switch installed in the governor test port and an OD on/off switch.  Pressure switch locks OD out below ~40mph regardless of where the OD switch is.  Pretty simple design.

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

key here is RETROFIT and you could do a bit more research...this swap is very very popular and is an easy fix....it still is shifted by hydraulic pressure same as the 904/727 and third gear high as it is referred, (OD) and lockup is the actual internal factory solenoids...nothing depending on factory ECU or in that matter electronics, simple analog 12 volt.  A500 and A518 still shift on pressure which controls the 12 volts by means of applying and removing grounds to the internal solenoids, the means to go into OD and lockup is switched 12 volt.....while ECU was in fact a very small part of the system but it is not needed on retrofit and will function in and of itself with an 85.00 kit (you can assemble your own kit if you desire)  and the only switch you will control is the very same one that is standard in the factory application and that is lockout for OD to keep it from shifting into OD by removing the path to ground for the solenoid.  Not to start an argument but by you stating this is electronics is like stating that the ignition contacts in a distributor is electronic ignition.  There is a vast vast difference in electro mechanical (analog) and electronics...

[Adam H P15 D30]

This is what is needed for a non lock up 518.  2 wires...

[Plymouthy Adams]

as an edit to sniper as I am in no manner calling him out as to the ecu and the A518 of early vintage.....I am however going to state he removed the conversation from the realm of retrofit, the entire purpose of the man's question and I answered according it is easy and done without the ECU....the RH is hydraulic shift and not electronic....and/or conditions of the ECU are fixed by simple analog devices but one should look closer to these ECU conditons and see what these conditions are really doing in the background.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Plymouthy Adams

[PurpleHse]

On 9/16/2020 at 9:36 AM, PurpleHse said:

reading the posts for engine swaps in 50's dodge.Mopar V8's create width/offset issues and associated trannies create tunnel issues...Have been looking at the 3.6 Penstar V6. 60 degree vs 90 makes it narrower, roughly 1/2 the length , might be able to bring it forward an help with tunnel..anyones opinion welcome..Have 1950 Wayfare....also considering a 318/340, but being a GM guy, I need help with tranny info(automatic) that relates to the V8's..Tks

 

[PurpleHse]

thanks for the trans info...still like an opinion on stcking a modern mopar V6 in '50 wayfarer

[PurpleHse]

spec info for penastar V6 was great..after discovering the "Penastar tick" issue, believe id rather deal with hemi fitment issues than cylinder head issue down the road

Edited September 19, 2020 by PurpleHse

[Plymouthy Adams]

these do not seem to be a problem but for a couple years and even then not that wide across the board given the total production numbers...still like the overall output verse the package size...with some factory installed Trenton NJ made 3.6 engines developing over 400 hp....minimum output at this time I believe is 283 and at 221 cubes...its an adequate performer...I get 30+ MPG with mine all the time....but for certain, this is a serious retrofit with electronics out the yang...I am not sure but have not seen a retrofit crate offering...really to bad over all given the RWD configuration of the Challenger making it a robust platform....My newest Install is the engine prior to the pentastar...the PowerTech...FIAT has taken the Dodge line to be the performer for sure and to that end I am pleased but they still factory offerings with little over the shoulder to the retro/rodder guys.