JBNeal Posted October 30, 2020 Report Share Posted October 30, 2020 Factory weld nuts have a square appearance; them other nuts appear to be common hex nuts welded to the rad.support...the top hex nuts might be an interference issue with that rad.shroud under the hood; them other nuts could be used to mount a battering ram or spike if'n ya snap one day and want to go full Road Warrior...never hurts to plan ahead 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted October 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2020 Bill, after you mentioned clips I looked closer at the parts manual and for the lower two pairs of holes on the front of the brace it doesn't show weld nuts. Do you know what panel(s) use those clips you mentioned for mounting? JB, I don't think a battering ram is the works but a spike sounds kinda cool I think what I'll do is remove all six of those nuts and weld two new ones in place on the back side top. My guess is what happened years ago is the two two nuts broke loose on disassembly and when I went to weld them back in place I just plain put them on the wrong side. And.....my simple mind may have felt that welding four more nuts in place in lieu of the clips was a good idea! Here's what the parts manual shows for weld nuts and where they go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billrigsby Posted October 31, 2020 Report Share Posted October 31, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, bkahler said: Bill, after you mentioned clips I looked closer at the parts manual and for the lower two pairs of holes on the front of the brace it doesn't show weld nuts. Do you know what panel(s) use those clips you mentioned for mounting? I was in error, I thought the radiator mounted to the front of the U-Mount, it does not. Had to go back to some hand scribbled notes I made during disassembly before I had any books. The welded nuts on the sides are for the sheetmetal panel that the front clip bolts to, the three on the rear are for the radiator and I show the fronts 'not used?' Edited October 31, 2020 by billrigsby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted October 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2020 5 hours ago, billrigsby said: I was in error, I thought the radiator mounted to the front of the U-Mount, it does not. Had to go back to some hand scribbled notes I made during disassembly before I had any books. The welded nuts on the sides are for the sheetmetal panel that the front clip bolts to, the three on the rear are for the radiator and I show the fronts 'not used?' Bill, thanks for the info. I went ahead and removed the nuts and just welded two new ones in place at the top only this time on the inside! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted October 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2020 There are some days when staying in bed would be a better option. Should have done that today..... A while back JB pointed out that my radiator was actually a Desoto radiator. As it turns out the Desoto radiator is not a direct bolt in replacement. Actually it bolts in place just fine. The top outlet just doesn't line up correctly. Unfortunately it's been way to long for me to remember what the radiator hose configuration was when I got the truck. The serial number of the motor that was in the truck was RBM10917 which I assume is a rebuilt motor. What I don't remember is what the thermostat housing looked like on that engine. I found a motor from a 52 with the correct engine T306 and the correct head for a 51 so the radiator hose configuration needs to fit that combination. The only picture I have that even remotely shows what the top of the radiator looked like is this picture. It was originally taken in 320x240 resolution so detail is nonexistent. It appears the radiator hose is angled quite a bit which means the hose was probably a very poor fit on the radiator outlet. The hose shown in the picture below is one ordered from Roberts 20+ years ago for a 51. If it was another 2" to 3" longer and more flexible I might be able to force into place but I don't really like that idea. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ194950 Posted October 31, 2020 Report Share Posted October 31, 2020 How hard are you looking to keep as original? I see several non stock type options. Cut the block outlet angle at the now 30 degree? and make it close and re-weld at angle closer to to needed to make it workable?? I do not like the flex hoses much as the pressure they put on original style radiator outlets, expensive these days for repairs. The ones I have tried are very stiff. Buy two different hoses with the correct curves ( portions of a new hose) for a short distance( one for top another for the bottom curve) with a piece of tubing between the two, muffler tube coated type or stainless?? Paint either black and almost disappear.? Just a couple of options? DJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted October 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2020 43 minutes ago, DJ194950 said: How hard are you looking to keep as original? I see several non stock type options. Well, original would be nice. I thought the Desoto radiator was good enough until finding that the hose configuration is jacked. The worst part is the fan blade comes really close to hitting the hose when I place it between the two fittings. I wish I had pictures from before I tore it down but the camera I used wasn't sufficient and worse, I've lost some pictures. 43 minutes ago, DJ194950 said: Cut the block outlet angle at the now 30 degree? and make it close and re-weld at angle closer to to needed to make it workable?? I do not like the flex hoses much as the pressure they put on original style radiator outlets, expensive these days for repairs. The ones I have tried are very stiff. I don't like those flex hoses either. I think with the fan blade being so close one of those would make things even worse. I'm going to check at the local parts store to see what they have in 1-3/4" hoses that aren't stiff as a board. 43 minutes ago, DJ194950 said: Buy two different hoses with the correct curves ( portions of a new hose) for a short distance( one for top another for the bottom curve) with a piece of tubing between the two, muffler tube coated type or stainless?? Paint either black and almost disappear.? Just a couple of options? Splicing a hose is definitely an option, especially in the short term. I am going to post a wanted add shortly, who knows I might get lucky! Besides, my luck has to change one of these days Thanks! Brad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted October 31, 2020 Report Share Posted October 31, 2020 For reference, the various radiators that are installed on my fleet put the fan blade within 2 inches of the rad.core, as well as the rad.brackets put the rad.core outside of that U-shaped rad.support...maybe your radiator can be shimmed to get that hose to fit better...to make things easier, replace one rad.mtg bolt at a time with a piece of all-thread or a much longer bolt, allowing the radiator to be moved around without muscling it into place... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted October 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2020 32 minutes ago, JBNeal said: For reference, the various radiators that are installed on my fleet put the fan blade within 2 inches of the rad.core, as well as the rad.brackets put the rad.core outside of that U-shaped rad.support...maybe your radiator can be shimmed to get that hose to fit better...to make things easier, replace one rad.mtg bolt at a time with a piece of all-thread or a much longer bolt, allowing the radiator to be moved around without muscling it into place... Fan distance to core was the clue I needed. Currently mine is 3-5/8" from fan blade to core. Looking closer at some pictures I just found the difference. The truck radiators have the face of the mounting flange out past the front of the radiator. On the Desoto radiator the flange is about in the middle of the radiator. Surprisingly, earlier this evening I found a gentleman on ebay that was selling a 1-1/2 ton radiator from a 52 truck. However buried in his listing for that radiator was the comment that he had a radiator for a 49 1/2 ton available also. So I contacted him and he sent pictures (shown below). He's only two hours drive from me so I'm heading down there tomorrow morning to have a look and if it's in the shape he says it's in I'll probably buy it. If it's not then possibly the radiator shop can relocate the mounting flanges to make the Desoto radiator work. I'll know by noon tomorrow Thanks! Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billrigsby Posted November 1, 2020 Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, bkahler said: I found a gentleman on ebay.....He's only two hours drive from me so I'm heading down there tomorrow morning to have a look and if it's in the shape he says it's in I'll probably buy it. How do you find someone on EBay selling something you need that's within driving distance, what a find. Everything I always find is halfway across the country, and being in the middle of the country that's a long drive in both directions. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted November 1, 2020 Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 additional information - radiator cap identification 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted November 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 20 hours ago, billrigsby said: How do you find someone on EBay selling something you need that's within driving distance, what a find. Everything I always find is halfway across the country, and being in the middle of the country that's a long drive in both directions. ? The way my luck has been going lately on this truck something had to go my way for a change! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted November 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 After a beautiful drive over the Cumberland mountains and back I managed to come home with a radiator. The part number on the radiator doesn't seem to match any in JB's list of radiators but I know it came out of a 49 1/2 ton truck. The seller opted to replace it with an aluminum radiator instead of trying to get it fixed. The following pictures pretty much show what it's like. Can anyone make out what the part number is? I come up with ??95181. Sometime this week I'll run it by the radiator shop to see what they can do with it. What's interesting is the core is about 1" narrower than the Desoto and about 2" or so taller. I didn't compare thickness. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted November 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 I figured the smart thing to do would be to install the radiator to make sure there weren't any surprises The only thing that seems a little odd is the drain cock location. It's in kind of an awkward spot for access. At a minimum I think it needs to rotate a little more so it's pointing down. Fan clearance to core is about 3/4" to 1". However, the radiator mounting saddle is pushed all the way towards the motor so that gap can be increased and I'm assuming once the sheetmetal is installed that will dictate where the saddle will end up. Needless to say I'm hoping the radiator shop can fix it up! Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted November 2, 2020 Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 I cannot find 1195181 in my parts books, and the drain cocks in the fleet point towards the right front spindle, not the fuel pump...might be easier to remove the drain cock and replace with a square headed plug... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted November 2, 2020 Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 On a separate note...I was looking at the exhaust manifold top end nut and washer. I cannot quite tell but it doesn't look like the correct slotted cone nut and 5/16" thick counter sunk beveled washer. Critical to prevent the exhaust manifold from cracking. These four special nuts and washers Are used only on the ends of the exhaust manifolds. Maybe you do have them installed...I cannot tell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted November 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 7 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said: On a separate note...I was looking at the exhaust manifold top end nut and washer. I cannot quite tell but it doesn't look like the correct slotted cone nut and 5/16" thick counter sunk beveled washer. Critical to prevent the exhaust manifold from cracking. These four special nuts and washers Are used only on the ends of the exhaust manifolds. Maybe you do have them installed...I cannot tell. Interesting. I do have them installed but they are on the top row, four center studs. That's where they were when I dismantled the engine years ago. Is there documentation somewhere that shows where they are supposed to go? Thanks! Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted November 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 8 hours ago, JBNeal said: I cannot find 1195181 in my parts books, and the drain cocks in the fleet point towards the right front spindle, not the fuel pump...might be easier to remove the drain cock and replace with a square headed plug... JB, could you post a picture of one of your drain cocks? On the radiator I just bought the drain port is at 90 degrees and actually points towards the fender. I think accessing the knob on the drain cock would be difficult in it's current orientation. Thanks! Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billrigsby Posted November 2, 2020 Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 44 minutes ago, bkahler said: Is there documentation somewhere that shows where they are supposed to go? See Below.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted November 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 20 minutes ago, billrigsby said: See Below.... Bill, thanks for the info! I'll have to look at my service manual again. I didn't notice that detail in there previously. One of these days I'll get things right Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted November 2, 2020 Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 1 hour ago, bkahler said: JB, could you post a picture of one of your drain cocks? On the radiator I just bought the drain port is at 90 degrees and actually points towards the fender. I think accessing the knob on the drain cock would be difficult in it's current orientation. Thanks! Brad I just pointed mine down so it would be easier to drain. IMO put it where makes the most sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted November 2, 2020 Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 On 10/31/2020 at 6:44 AM, bkahler said: the rad.outlet casting has a boss for the drain to thread into, and on this pic, that boss is oriented towards the RF spindle, which jives with the radiators I have...on your new radiator, that boss is oriented towards the fuel pump, not sure how close that is to the crank pulley but it looks a little awkward. Just my 2 pesos, but some newer radiators omit drain cocks for cost and practical reasons. One less leak point in the system, plus the reality of how messy a coolant flush can be...the logic being that pulling the lower hose drains the radiator faster (also allowing for back flushing), then the engine compartment gets washed off after a coolant flush anyway, so eliminating the drain cock makes some sense. I have yet to do a coolant flush that didn't require drying my boots by the stove, and have broken a few frozen drain cocks (metal and plastic) that were a headache to replace because of space restrictions, requiring pulling the radiator to complete repairs...I've pulled plenty of radiators so I don't really need the practice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted November 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 JB's comment about plugging the drain port at the bottom sounds rather appealing. I can't remember the last time I actually used a drain cock to drain a radiator. My TR4 didn't have one and I just pulled the hose from the bottom when it was time to flush the cooling system. I think that solves the problem nicely Thanks! Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted November 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 I dropped the radiator off at the shop and asked them to check it out. While I was standing there he lowered it into the coolant tank and applied a low pressure to it. There were more bubbles streaming out of the fins than when a submarine blows it's ballast tanks. He said the core was shot but the tanks were good. He's going to order a new core which he said might take a week or two. Apparently he's having a hard time ordering anything right now because no one's working. I won't know price until he can talk to the supplier but he was guessing around $600. Regardless of price it needs a new core so not much I can say about it. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ194950 Posted November 2, 2020 Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 A long shot but could the core you had from the previous radiator be used for this with using the tanks that match the outlets as you need?? Maybe the mounts positioned as needed also?? As I said, A Long Shot or wishful thinking I know! ? ? DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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