The Windward 48 dodge survivor

[Bbdakota]

It shouldn't matter if you have positive ground or negative ground. The positive post is a little bigger on the battery terminal but it doesn't matter what the other end attaches to, it's still positive on the battery. Make sense? 

[Sam Buchanan]

58 minutes ago, Bbdakota said:

It shouldn't matter if you have positive ground or negative ground. The positive post is a little bigger on the battery terminal but it doesn't matter what the other end attaches to, it's still positive on the battery. Make sense? 

 

Excellent! They look great and the prices are indeed reasonable...think I need a set.  

 

Reason I mentioned neg ground is the lengths of your cables look similar to what I need...just the wrong color. I need one black and two reds.  

Edited August 3, 2019 by Sam Buchanan

[Bbdakota]

7 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

Reason I mentioned neg ground is the lengths of your cables look similar to what I need...just the wrong color. I need one black and two reds

Gotcha, once again I misunderstood what I read...... 

[Bbdakota]

On 8/1/2019 at 3:33 PM, Bbdakota said:

had no trouble starting the car with the small cables currently on the car

Surprise surprise! I thought I had no trouble with the small cables, the fact is, I'd never experienced it starting hot with the proper size cables. The wife and I took the car out to breakfast this morning and there was a noticeable difference in the starting rpm once the car was hot. 

[keithb7]

I was just recently studying electron theory in an old automobile reference book. The stats and theory are incredible.

 

For example: 1 amp  flowing past a point for 1 second is one coulomb. In that 1 second 6,280,000,000,000,000,000 electrons frow by. (Read six quintillion, two hundred and eighty quadrillion)

 

Imagine 30 amp draw? Like a starter.  

 

A 00 battery cable at 122F offers a natural resistance of 0.08712 ohms Per thousand feet.  A  2 ga cable has 0.1747 ohms per 1,000 ft. Double the resitance. 

 

Same cables at 68F: 00 0.07793 ohms. 2 ga 0.1239 ohms. 

 

Bigger cable moves more electrons freely. The hotter the cable gets, the more resistance. 

We need all the free fast flowing electrons we can get,  to turn a starer quickly. Especially with only a 6V differential to ground. 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by keithb7

[Bbdakota]

31 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

I was just recently studying electron theory in an old automobile reference book. The stats and theory are incredible.

 

For example: 1 amp  flowing past a point for 1 second is one coulomb. In that 1 second 6,280,000,000,000,000,000 electrons frow by. (Read six quintillion, two hundred and eighty quadrillion)

 

Imagine 30 amp draw? Like a starter.  

 

A 00 battery cable at 122F offers a natural resistance of 0.08712 ohms Per thousand feet.  A  2 ga cable has 0.1747 ohms per 1,000 ft. Double the resitance. 

 

Same cables at 68F: 00 .007793 ohms. 2 ga 0.1239 ohms. 

 

Bigger cable moves more electrons freely. The hotter the cable gets, the more resistance. 

We need all the free fast flowing electrons we can get,  to turn a starer quickly. Especially with only a 6V differential to ground. 

 

This is heavy doc! And yes we do!

[Sam Buchanan]

3 hours ago, Bbdakota said:

Surprise surprise! I thought I had no trouble with the small cables, the fact is, I'd never experienced it starting hot with the proper size cables. The wife and I took the car out to breakfast this morning and there was a noticeable difference in the starting rpm once the car was hot. 

 

Glad to see that, my new set of cables should be here in a few days, thanks for the referral! Sure is nice to see a vendor charge a very reasonable fee ($3.97!) for shipping instead of using "shipping" as a backdoor way to jack up profit margins. One of our best known vendors charges $14 even if you are just ordering some paper gaskets.........Com'on Man..........

Edited August 4, 2019 by Sam Buchanan

[Bbdakota]

Decided to check valve clearance due to how I've found evidence of lack of maintenance in other things about the car and this slight tick when the car is idling. I ordered new valve cover gaskets, oil pan gasket and manifold gaskets weeks ago. I can see a little smut near the top of the valve cover where the manifold is leaking. The valves checked out really well. Only slight adjustment on a few valves. That means the ticking I hear is the manifold leak. Those studs/nuts look like they can cause me some headaches! Spayed them with PB blaster and let them sit. I'm going to pull the pan,  clean it out this oil change. Inside the valve cover looks pretty clean. My oil change choice is non detergent sae30 with a bottle of stp oil treatment to replace the zinc for a flat tappet cam. 

[Sam Buchanan]

1 hour ago, Bbdakota said:

That means the ticking I hear is the manifold leak. Those studs/nuts look like they can cause me some headaches! Spayed them with PB blaster and let them sit.

 

I need to pull the manifolds to install a gasket between them at the heat riser. Three of the heat riser bolts are already twisted off and I'm dreading dealing with the manifold nuts. As a temporary fix I put a steel plate between the manifolds and that stopped most of the exhaust leak....but it needs to be fixed right.

 

I'll be awaiting to see how your job goes and any tips you come up with.  

[Bbdakota]

On 8/11/2019 at 6:35 PM, Sam Buchanan said:

I'll be awaiting to see how your job goes and any tips you come up with

I figured while I had the inner fender off, I'd test a few manifold nuts. If any felt like they would break, I'd leave it alone since my leak wasn't bad. That changed after I got a couple to free up an got to aggressive. Broke one of the center lower bolts. At  least it's one of the easy ones to get to. I also found one of the bolts holding the manifolds together was broken. Then I broke another. So I got 3 bolts to get out.

[Bbdakota]

Here's a better picture of the air cleaner adapter I made and how it's held on.

[Bbdakota]

Most probably know this but when dealing with rusting bolts/nuts, best option is turning it back and forth with penetrating oil. The way these felted, I'm sure more would have broke if I would have just bowed up on them. I'm pretty happy only 3 are broken, 2 I can get out on the bench. 

[mrwrstory]

cool!

[Bbdakota]

This exhaust manifold is testing my patients. The two lower middle studs (one I broke the stud at the face of the manifold) are rusted to the manifold therefore the manifold won't slide off. I ended up breaking one off at the face of the engine block. The other I got the manifold to slide 3/8" and I'm using a chisel to cut through. Slowly cause I don't want to hit it too hard. So now I'll have 4 broke bolts/ studs to deal with. 

[Bbdakota]

Make that 5. Broke the 3rd holding the 2 manifolds together. But one backed out so back to 4 to go. These other 2 in the manifold are being stubborn. 

[Sam Buchanan]

Wow.....this is discouraging. But you are committed now and I'm confident you will eventually make it work. I may just tolerate the small leak between manifolds for a while.

 

On a brighter note, the new battery cables are a great upgrade, hots starts are no longer reason for concern. Thanks for the tip!

Edited August 17, 2019 by Sam Buchanan

[hi_volt]

Very nice car!  Once things cool off a little bit here in Tucson, I'll be able to spend more time working on my 1947 P15 and get it on the road.  Looks like you're having a great time!

[Bbdakota]

This manifold nightmare keeps getting worse. Machine shop ruined my exhaust manifold.  Took it to have it trued up, they took way too much off the bottom and didn't get it surfaced square in relation to the heat riser bolting surface. When I set the 2 on a flat surface, there's a  1/4 inch gap on the outside edge of the heat riser surface intake to exhaust. Done some calling around local but can't find a exhaust manifold. To top it off, I don't think it was leaking to begin with. I think the tick and smut was coming from the heat riser shaft holes, it's a little sloppy.

 

since the manifold is junk anyway, I'm going to weld a block off plate over the heat riser opening and not connect the intake to the exhaust. I'll remove  the heat riser and weld up the holes. I'll have to elongate the 2 center lower bolt holes to allow the exhaust manifold to sit flat against the block. 

here's the 2 manifolds sitting flat on the matting surface and the gap at the heat riser. 

[Bbdakota]

I still have the oil pan to pull and clean and adapting a EC52PLY radiator (discussed in a different topic). Hopefully then the car will be ready for cruisin the coast. Been working a lot lately so progress has been slow. 

[chrysleritis]

Groan. That's a bad deal they've done to the bottom of that manifold. I just removed my heat riser valve as it was rusted open in the "preheat" position, blasting the carb base for the last dozen or more years. I didn't weld anything in to the manifold to blank it off, I just got a piece of 18 gauge steel and cut and bent a piece that would mostly block the direct exhaust path to the intake "stove". If it rusts in there, it will be easy to replace in a few years. Doesn't seem to hurt anything at all without it, but I live in a very easy climate. Your welded solution will be tidy.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2019 by chrysleritis

[Dodgeb4ya]

If you only send the machine shop only one of the manifolds and they surface  it.... usually the four bolt together holes will not line up... a good reason to send the shop both manifolds bolted together.

Generally both the intake and exhaust manifolds must be bolted up against the block then bolted together.  Then take them in to the machine shop and surfaced as a assembly.

But....I have to say that is the worst job I've ever seen on a manifold surfacing job...

Sorry you are having a tough time. It will get better?

 

[Sam Buchanan]

1 hour ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

If you only send the machine shop only one of the manifolds and they surface  it.... usually the four bolt together holes will not line up... a good reason to send the shop both manifolds bolted together.

Generally both the intake and exhaust manifolds must be bolted up against the block then bolted together.  Then take them in to the machine shop and surfaced as a assembly.

But....I have to say that is the worst job I've ever seen on a manifold surfacing job...

Sorry you are having a tough time. It will get better?

 

 

So could these manifolds be salvaged if bolted together and resurfaced as a set, or has too much material been removed from the exhaust manifold already?

Edited August 26, 2019 by Sam Buchanan

[Dodgeb4ya]

There probably might be too much removed from the exhaust manifold flanges ( block mating surfaces) after a second resurfacing. Not sure about that though. A qualified machinist could help make that decision once he sees the manifolds.

If the flanges are too thin they could crack when tightening up the manifolds to block surface.

[Sam Buchanan]

This is sad to watch..... 

[Bbdakota]

7 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

a good reason to send the shop both manifolds bolted together

Yes, wish I would have bolted them together and taken both but I didn't think he was going to do nothing but touch it. It wasn't out bad. Hindsight......

 

5 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

So could these manifolds be salvaged if bolted together and resurfaced as a set

I think to much would have to be taken off. Plus right now I could find a replacement exhaust manifold to mate to my unhurt intake, if I machine the intake that much, I'll need both manifolds to fix this problem. 

 

I welded a block off plate over the heat riser with nickel rods, preheated to 650-700. Wrapped it up in fire cloth and it took a good 6 hours to cool. Took it back to the machine shop so he could true up the top edge witch never made it to the belt the first time due to the angle he let get out of hand. He didn't even offer an apology, just said he hated surfaceing manifolds and he couldn't get to it until maybe tomorrow. I got nothing to lose by trying this. Worse case I'll need to find a manifold but I can't hurt this one more than it's hurt.

 

I pulled the oil pan, nothing alarming but a little sludge in the bottom. To be expected. It'll be nice and clean once it goes back on.