Industrial Engine

[Harvie]

I noticed that the Chrysler straight 8 in my 1947 New Yorker has an industrial serial number "IND" prefix. I am presuming that someone changed out the original motor over the years but I am also wondering if Chrysler may have used some of the surplus wartime production components - maybe engines that were meant to go into W/C's etc - for post-war civilian vehicles.

 

Anybody ever hear of such a thing?

Edited October 29, 2018 by Harvie

[pflaming]

 

pfdhb-6718825894@sale.craigslist.org

 

this is listed in Vermont. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

I've seen a lot of saratoga,NewYorkers, and T&C's over the years.

I have never seen an industrial engine factory installed in a C39 or C40 car in the 40 + years I've owned 1946-48 eight cylinder Chryslers.

 

[Harvie]

Thanks Dodgeb4ya - I have a line on an engine from a 1949 C-39 - will it fit into a '47 C-39?

[Dodgeb4ya]

It sure will ... but watch out for the 2 BBL VS the 1 BBL intake changes ( mid 47 and back had 2BBL Strombergs carbs..)

[Young Ed]

I would expect the war time trucks to have had a T block number. All the trucks I've seen or talked about started with T. Also I've never seen a truck of any kind with an 8. 

[Dan Hiebert]

You're correct, it would have originally been intended for industrial use.  Military used a different block number and hardly any, if any, straight 8 engines.  The occasional staff car was an exception, but those officers also usually purchased their own staff car.  There have been a few Forum members who used an industrial 6 cylinder, (usually from a fork-lift, although I've seen Chrysler industrial engines on oil and water pumps, too) in their cars or trucks.  An industrial 8 cylinder would not be rare, depends on what it's needed for.  I've heard that some industrial engines are set up to run counter-clockwise depending on their application.

[Harvie]

Thanks to all, I am going to take a look at the '49 straight 8 engine this weekend and I will take some pictures and post them here. I will also take some photos of the engine in my car - particularly the intake manifold and carb for your comments and advice about what I am dealing with here. This car is starting to remind me of that old Johnny Cash song  about the '47'48'49'50'51'52...etc Caddie he built "one piece at a time".

 

I used to have a '49 Canadian Dodge (US Plymouth) and it had the "Canadian" flat six in it -I was told that it had a bigger bore, shorter stroke, and different length block from the US passenger car version. I am told that this "Canadian" engine had the same specs as the industrial "IND" flat six. In fact I had a brand new "IND" six installed in that car back in '90. I am wondering if the "IND" straight 8 specs differ from the "C" specs in terms of bore, stroke, etc?

[Andydodge]

Harvie.........the Canadian mopar cars used the De Soto/Chrysler 25" long engine in all Dodge, Plymouth, DeSoto and Chrysler cars, these were 218, 228, 250/251 and 265 cubes with a different bore/stroke to the 23" engines..........the 23" long USA sourced Plymouth/Dodge engine came in 201, 217 and 230 cubes with a different bore/stroke to the 25" engine...........I was intending to use an Industrial/ex Sydney Airport Tug 230 cube 23" engine as a hop up basis to swap in the 1941 Plymouth I had, it still had the "Industrial " tag riveted to the block, see pic, its to the left of the fuel pump...........it appeared to be indentical to a standard car engine tho' I had Finned Edgy head, Offy Intake, Split headers, HEI Dissy and the Industrial cam reground by Oz's Waggott Engineering to their 1/2 race specs.........my understanding is that both the 23" and 25" engines were available in various Industrial applications depending on the power requirements...........as an aside to this question on the straight 8 usage..........the Sydney pleasure cruiser boat company, Halversons used Straight 8 Chrysler engines in the 1930's thru to the 1940's and maybe even into the 1950's..............I'm unaware of whether they were industrial or just marinised automotive engines but I know that they were used by this company and they still had spares to suit these engines up until the 1990's.........regards, Andy Douglas   

Edited November 10, 2018 by Andydodge

[Dodgeb4ya]

I've had an industrial 323 eight...there usually is a brass or aluminum 3" X 4" spec plate attached to the right rear of block.. below the rear tappet cover.

[Harvie]

I went and took a look at an engine as a possible candidate for a re-build - serial number prefix C-49 - trying to attach a photo of manifold it to this post.

[Dodgeb4ya]

That's a 1950 Chrysler Satatoga or NewYorker 323 eight. Last year for the straight eights.

[Harvie]

[Harvie]

Is this manifold for double or single brrl carb?

[Andydodge]

Single, only one throat there.....tho' you should still be able to get 2 into one carby adaptors..........andyd

[Dodgeb4ya]

1946 to 1948 Chryslers use a 2 BBL intake manifold.   1948 Chrysler eights use a 2 to 1 BBL cast iron manifold to single barrel carb adapter .

The adapter is required as Chrysler switched to the Carter B&B 1 BBL in late 1947 thru 1948.

You would have to use your intake manifold off your old engine also because the 1949-50 intakes don't have a throttle linkage mounting boss at the rear of the manifold.

[Fernando Mendes]

Canadian IND-251.

[Harvie]

Will the exhaust manifold from the 1950 New Yorker engine fit any other 323 or is it specific to model year also? I will appreciate that information because in my very amateur opinion, the engine that I saw on Saturday may not be rebuild-able. The head was removed and It looked like this engine had been eating a lot of metal - the engine is seized, there were small chunks broken off some of the pistons, one of the pistons looked like a small frag of ring had been pounded into the top face of it and another piston had two rectangular divots taken out of it 180 degrees apart oriented along the axis of the crank shaft. Pan had not been removed but given the damage up top I don't believe that the crank is feeling very well these days. Maybe, in spite of all this, is this block is rebuild-able? It is standard bore. I will try to send some more pictures of what I saw - unfortunately they don't show the details of the pistons that I described above.

[Dodgeb4ya]

A 1950 Chrysler straight 8 exhaust manifold will directly bolt on any 323 straight 8 block. 

Don't buy an engine that doesn't turn over and is broken up in any way.

Any 1946-50 8 cylinder long block is a direct replacement,

But accessories..gen, dist, intake manifold, throttle linkage, carb ,choke etc might need to be swapped.

[Harvie]

Thanks Dodge - I may just see if I can get the exhaust manifold from this engine. It may be a good thing to have as a spare. 

 

Does anyone else have the same difficulty that I do when trying to download pictures onto this site? I try the click and drag method but it fails to download because it claims the picture exceeds the allowable size.

[Dodgeb4ya]

That manifold is a part you will need sooner or later as they crack and cannot be repaired properly.

I have a pile of them for my cars and have replaced a few over the years for me and others.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Dodgeb4ya

[Fernando Mendes]

[DrDoctor]

 .

Edited December 20, 2018 by DrDoctor

[Harvie]

Thanks very much Doc I shall give that a try.

 

And thanks to Fernando and Dodge too. I got a look at the aluminum plate at the bottom of the block - my engine is a fellow Canadian from Windsor, Ontario. Fernando-  It looked like you had an interesting document referring to industrial engine numbers in the photo that you posted - can you please let me know how I may access it? 

 

Dodgeb4ya - you have owned many Chrysler straight eights - any difference in the specs for the Canadian Industrial eight’s stroke/bore/etc and the specs for any of the other Chrysler eights of the same vintage that you are aware of?

 

thanks to all.

[Fernando Mendes]

Good morning Harvie.I will send to you today.