512 cid C series on Dakota chassis- build thread

[Los_Control]

I did not realize we needed access under the floor. The angle strips will not work.

But a clean line always looks good. Just like a 1/4" reveal on trim, it is expected.

You do not need a 1/4, a 1/8" gap along the edges would look great. I would not over think it and just leave a gap you are comfortable with.

The bigger the gap the easier it is to lift it up .... could even go with some sort of strip of rubber over the wood to seal it to the bed sides, just to keep the dirt out.

You know the dirt is going to accumulate there, will need to lift the floor to clean it ... no big deal but maybe you could make it easier if you think about cleaning while building?

[ggdad1951]

The bed tying into the bed sides is part of the stability of the bed.  The angle strips help tie it all together....you need something along the edge.  You could put the angle UNDER the bed boards, but then you are hanging the bed sides off the edge board to some degree...instead of resting on them which then rest on the cross members.  Food for thought.

[Radarsonwheels]

25 minutes ago, ggdad1951 said:

The bed tying into the bed sides is part of the stability of the bed.  The angle strips help tie it all together....you need something along the edge.  You could put the angle UNDER the bed boards, but then you are hanging the bed sides off the edge board to some degree...instead of resting on them which then rest on the cross members.  Food for thought.

 

My welded in bed frame does that job and also has the four poly mount points which are the only places the bed touches any other part of the truck. The bed sides and inner tubs are welded to the bed frame. 

 

Before I added the bed floor frame the bed had to come on and off a few times and it was scary how much it flexed all over the place. Now it stays flat and the corners stay square. The frame is way stronger than it needs to be. 

 

This bed only needs strength as a platform not as reinforcement for anything else and will be 90% decorative but I will not hesitate to use it as a pickup truck. Or to take a nap next to my cooler!

Edited December 11, 2018 by Radarsonwheels

[Radarsonwheels]

Maybe I should just cut the bottom of the battery box off and make bolt in brackets so the battery will drop out from the bottom. Then I can make a nice factoryish angle strip. The curve around the tubs would be challenging without a shrinker/stretcher. 

 

I like the idea of a clean 1/8” gap. Google results say 1/16” for decking with 4” boards.

[Los_Control]

just grabbed this off of facebook

more food for thought

[Los_Control]

If only there was some sort of T molding made of rubber, you could fasten it to the sides of the wood, top would sit on the wood while sealing up against the bed sides.

This would keep it looking clean on the edges.

[Los_Control]

Probably best if you do not get ideas about tatoo'ing a tree in the wood,  like this guy did 

 

[ggdad1951]

there is the process where you wet the wood with salt?water and then hook a battery charger up to it and let it burn "lighting" streaks in it.  kinda cool looking,  You might have to Utube it.

[Los_Control]

how many weeks you think that adds to the build?

Not my intention, but when you get a tatoo artist and say "dont do this"

I suspect radaronwheels is ready to kick us off the forums  

[Plymouthy Adams]

well, that is not a real truck....a real truck would not  have a fuel cell with access through the bed floor......I am pretty opinionated, and often this does not sit well with folks but I have zero respect for any fuel cell outfitted build that IS NOT 100% a track vehicle.... it reeks of pure shortcut and no matter how trick it may look, the real trick is to have a functional fuel fill that flows with the body...but remember...this is just my opinion and has nothing to do with the name on the title of your vehicle...?

[Jomani]

I agree with everyone who has commented on your sketches ?

 

i wouldn’t be too concerned leaving gaps around the mounting bolts. As long as the wood has room to move, it will crush the grain in the small area around the bolt.

 

Keep in mind that the wood will also expand upward - very little but enough to eventually loosen the strips. If you cut a slight bevel instead of a 90 degree notch, you will get some spring action out of the metal strips. Rather than pull the bolts down tight, let the edges of the strip pull tight against the wood and leave a very slight gap in the center. 

 

[Radarsonwheels]

Jeez Plymothy

 

I don’t look down my nose at a fuel cell equipped truck but I definitely get it. I had that spun aluminum round tank in my truck with the flathead for a while and while it worked a treat it kind of reeked of a certain kind of streetrod wannabe racer deal. I think I feel the way you do when I see a car that sits below the scrub line or that ‘cambered’ ‘stanced’ german car with stretched tire thing, or even worse a tonneau cover hiding a hideous non functional bed interior that contains ill advised suspension parts instead of hauling capacity. 

 

I do like seeing an old pickup at the track with well a well fabricated cage and four link and big slicks in the bed- but it better not run a 13.5 second 1/4 mile. 

 

In any case I do agree with you enough that I want a bed that can be used to haul a mattress or a couch or bags of mulch for the missus’ garden and not have to unload at the gas station. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

the installation of a fuel cell is just another one of those things that is just overdone is basically all I am saying.....it is not so much as looking down my nose as it is there is nothing creative in slapping one in a trunk of a car, bed of a truck...in the case of the truck...as you pointed out and also one of many points I was making, you defeated the purpose of your truck.  granted many are 100% show trucks and some will have a bit of "go" with that..but majority is settling on the trick look more than a necessary appointment for class needed racing requirement.  Personally I better be getting at minimum 40MPG to limit myself with so little fuel and so frequent stops for a driver car.   And again I will state this is personal opinion... many are built following magazine articles trends only...

Edited December 12, 2018 by Plymouthy Adams

[ggdad1951]

11 hours ago, Jomani said:

I agree with everyone who has commented on your sketches ?

 

i wouldn’t be too concerned leaving gaps around the mounting bolts. As long as the wood has room to move, it will crush the grain in the small area around the bolt.

 

Keep in mind that the wood will also expand upward - very little but enough to eventually loosen the strips. If you cut a slight bevel instead of a 90 degree notch, you will get some spring action out of the metal strips. Rather than pull the bolts down tight, let the edges of the strip pull tight against the wood and leave a very slight gap in the center. 

 

Ipe (aka ironwood) won't move much with moisture nor will it crush much.  The stuff is so dense it has the same fire rating as concrete.

[Radarsonwheels]

I have some woodworking tools but I borrowed a 10” tablesaw and bought a roller sawhorse and a 60 tooth diablo carbide blade. It had been a long time since high school shop class and I never ripped $100 boards before but I went slow and everything is coming out awesome. 

 

I got the two new boards ripped down- one to 11” and one to 12”- some extra for now. I’m going to fit the two boards on the sides around the wheel tubs first then sneak up on the central board last. I figure I’ll get them all fitting side to side then figure out how to mill out the corners after the shovel strips get here.

 

If you look at the truck Los posted with the tree they spent a lot of time and money getting a bartop or high polish finish but the gaps suck around the tubs. I’m guessing they made patterns off the plane at the bottom of the wood and didn’t account for the tubs getting smaller at the top of the wood?

 

I started making a cardboard pattern for the tub cutout in the bottom of the wood- here’s a pic. It’s still a little tight. When tried it on top of the wood an inch higher it was WAY big. I think I’m going to cut out the size of the top and hog out the angle until it will drop down, then round off the sharp top corner to get my 1/16” gap.

 

This wood is easy to work with but any mistakes will be expensive!

 

 

[RNR1957NYer]

My goodness you work fast - you're my hero!!!  I was thinking about Los_Control's suggestion that a resilient "T" gasket would take the curse off the bed / floor gap and thought that a trip to your closest big box home improvement store might net you some flat gasket/weather strip material that you could route flush with the wood (my turn to sketch!)

[Radarsonwheels]

9 minutes ago, RNR1957NYer said:

My goodness you work fast - you're my hero!!!  I was thinking about Los_Control's suggestion that a resilient "T" gasket would take the curse off the bed / floor gap and thought that a trip to your closest big box home improvement store might net you some flat gasket/weather strip material that you could route flush with the wood (my turn to sketch!)

I love the sketch- I was thinking wow you even did a casual version of the architect all caps blueprint handwriting font, then I took a look at your profile- ha! 

 

I’m on board except for one thing- I want to show absolutely as much of this gorgeous wood as possible. I kind of feel like if I just do a nice 1/16” or 3/32” gap it will work great, drain rainwater and hose off easily, and I can tell myself I’ll do it right with angle strips when I get around to doing the body work right instead of just hacking at it.

 

I also have to remember that the truck has a wiper arm groove in the one year only windshield and while it will never be a ‘ratrod’ it’ll always be a rat...

[RNR1957NYer]

Rats - my true identity is revealed!  I hear you about not wanting to coverup that wood.  The thing about soft stuff, like gaskets and caulk in the construction world, and that perimeter bed angle used on stock beds mentioned earlier,  is that they conceal gaps and inconsistencies.  You are talking about scribing a pretty tight open joint between something straight - hardwood that's been cut to width on a table saw - and something that wasn't flat or square when new - the bed sides.  Waviness and out of square edges can be masked by a little bigger gap than your ideal 1/16". As I tell the tradespeople on site:  Make it look like you meant it!

[ggdad1951]

13 hours ago, Radarsonwheels said:

I have some woodworking tools but I borrowed a 10” tablesaw and bought a roller sawhorse and a 60 tooth diablo carbide blade. It had been a long time since high school shop class and I never ripped $100 boards before but I went slow and everything is coming out awesome. 

 

I got the two new boards ripped down- one to 11” and one to 12”- some extra for now. I’m going to fit the two boards on the sides around the wheel tubs first then sneak up on the central board last. I figure I’ll get them all fitting side to side then figure out how to mill out the corners after the shovel strips get here.

 

If you look at the truck Los posted with the tree they spent a lot of time and money getting a bartop or high polish finish but the gaps suck around the tubs. I’m guessing they made patterns off the plane at the bottom of the wood and didn’t account for the tubs getting smaller at the top of the wood?

 

I started making a cardboard pattern for the tub cutout in the bottom of the wood- here’s a pic. It’s still a little tight. When tried it on top of the wood an inch higher it was WAY big. I think I’m going to cut out the size of the top and hog out the angle until it will drop down, then round off the sharp top corner to get my 1/16” gap.

 

This wood is easy to work with but any mistakes will be expensive!

 

 

 

keep up the good work buddy!  Also know the dust from Ipe can stain concrete....don't ask me how I know...

[Radarsonwheels]

Ok I had to work yesterday so I only got a little done but today I had a few hours to get after it. 

 

My previous idea of 3/16” gaps turned out to be laughable but it’s going well so far. I have the side boards fit where I’m happy with them and got 3/8” taper out of one of the raw boards from the sawmill. The bed has some belly in the sides so it took some doing to get all the gaps acceptable.

 

Now that all my four side boards are fit and square I have a new problem- the bed has 5/8” taper toward the front.

 

I have one 11” board left and a gap that is 9 3/4” in the front and 10 3/8” in the back! So plenty of material but now I have to figure out how to fudge this so the shovel strips look parallel.

 

I’m thinking the best option is to fan them out evenly so without a ruler they will just look like they converge because of perspective/vanishing point instead of being an obvious wedge shape?

 

This is getting fiddly. If I share the taper between three boards and only remove just under 3/16”ish of taper from of each I think I’ll be good. If I was using softer wood I’d attach an offset straight edge with short screws and rip the taper in the tablesaw but it is probably faster to shave to a pencil line with a flapwheel in my 4” grinder.  

 

When I did the shaping for the tubs I cut the shape out with a jigsaw and did the rest of the carving with carbide burrs in my die grinder and the flapwheel in the grinder. Both removed material pretty cleanly and quickly. 

 

I am glad I plan to cap the endgrain with steel front and back- they are far from perfect and the bed front and gate are bowed, plus it will keep me from having to taper both sides of the boards to keep the ends all perfectly square.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Radarsonwheels

[Radarsonwheels]

Another pic with the oversized center board just sitting angled in there.

 

The gap on the left that has bolts hanging through washers as temporary spacers has a little bow in it. I might be able to fix it some with my taper plans or else the stainless will hide the ugly.

 

Can’t wait for the strips and oil finish I ordered to come in but I still have to hang and plumb the brakes, and perfect & button up the fuel system before I can start bolting in the deck. It’s a good start though and at least my buddy isn’t storing the ipe for me any more.

[Los_Control]

I have never worked with ipe before, sounds like it is tough to cut.

Is it possible to back cut at a angle the edge boards, this would remove material on the bottom and leave the top.

Then take a #2 pencil and scribe the edges, tracing the sides to the wood.

Then use your grinder with 80 grit paper and grind to the line .... this will get you real tight, also can adjust the taper issue so the middle board is cut straight.

 

This is how I would tackle oak or other woods, You can get a fit so tight that cant slide a hair through, then pull the board away from the sides for proper reveal, any adjusting I would want to do it on the edge boards.

Making a straight 90 degree cut on the edges is tough to get a tight fit. Especially if the bed rails lean a bit or you have round corners on the wheel wells.

 

Your cuts look really good though. If you could picture using your grinder and grind at a 20 degree angle on the bottom side of the edges.

Then the top side that you see is thinner, but on the edges and fine ... and the thin wood with a steady hand, you can easily grind to the line you scribe'd.

Same time use a square and math and figure out how much to remove from each edge, to square up the hole in the center.

If possible, adjusting the edge boards to eliminate the problem is the correct way.

 

Same time, you could just cut the center board to fit and drop it in. 

 

[Merle Coggins]

Couldn’t you just cut the necessary taper into the inner edge of the outer boards so that their inner edges are parallel? Then the inner 3 boards would all set in straight with straight shovel strips. 

[Radarsonwheels]

41 minutes ago, Merle Coggins said:

Couldn’t you just cut the necessary taper into the inner edge of the outer boards so that their inner edges are parallel? Then the inner 3 boards would all set in straight with straight shovel strips. 

 

I think that is what Los was saying too which is exactly the opposite of what I was saying. Which is why you guys are awesome- sometimes when the world is upside down I just need a friend to tell me I’m standing on my head haha

 

On the rightmost board when I got done shaving the high spots until it sat with an acceptable gap to the flats was 3/8” wider in the front. I did exactly like you said los- scribed a pencil line, cut most of the meat off the fat side with a jigsaw, and finished with the sandpaper disc up to the line. It left a nice straight edge. 

 

There is enough material to keep going tighter and tighter to the sides but I think I’m happy with the side gaps. 

 

The easiest and best plan of attack is definitely to split the taper in 1/2 and take it out of the insides of the edge boards. A 5/16” wedge will melt off in a few minutes with a fresh flap disc and would be clean enough to show even though it will be hidden under the stainless.

 

The fit on the sides I have about 1/2” of material that could get burnt up getting a perfect fit but I dunno it’s a farm truck not a show truck. The difficult thing is that not only is it bellied and warped on the sides but the tubs get almost 2” wider at the bottom of the wood than at the top. I’ll have to see if I’m still happy with it the next time I have the cover off. Honestly I liked it just fine in plywood and rough pine with no strips I just don’t want to do it all over again a third time any time soon.

 

Thanks for the super helpful suggestions!

 

 

[Los_Control]

Almost like cheating, is underneath and nobody going to see it, meat that is left is now very manageable.

And the end result is nice.

 

Little putty, little paint, make this ol carpenter what he aint.