F-headed Mopar sixes

[MoparMontana]

Thought some of you would like to see a few of the coolest Mopar sixes on the planet.

[MoparMontana]

McCulloch supercharged F-head 230

[MoparMontana]

[MoparMontana]

[MoparMontana]

[1949 Wraith]

Very interesting. Thank you.

 

[55 Fargo]

Yes interesting.

Having seen your Fhead conversions a good while ago and your 31 Desoto You tube vids.

I wondered what the rocker arrangements looked like.

You can count on my Order Placement just as soon as those winning numbers come through.

Now here is another? On your Edgy aluminum heads, fine looking I might add.

It has been rumoured the design or possibly the early design had a cooling issue.

Is there any truth to this and if yes what design change has been improved to deal with this?

I post this not to be combative but to gain more knowledge on your products.

 

 

 

[P15-D24]

How mother Mopar was going to do it...

[MoparMontana]

2 hours ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Yes interesting.

Having seen your Fhead conversions a good while ago and your 31 Desoto You tube vids.

I wondered what the rocker arrangements looked like.

You can count on my Order Placement just as soon as those winning numbers come through.

Now here is another? On your Edgy aluminum heads, fine looking I might add.

It has been rumoured the design or possibly the early design had a cooling issue.

Is there any truth to this and if yes what design change has been improved to deal with this?

I post this not to be combative but to gain more knowledge on your products.

 

 

 

That's very interesting.  Thanks for letting me know. 

 

I had never heard that rumor about cooling issues, not have I or any of my buddies that run them experienced a problem. I will ask Earl about it though. I did run a head on my Chrysler for a few years before I put the 265 in that was returned to Earl because the owner claimed it had porosity and wept coolant.  I ran ceramic Irontite through it and ran it for 5 or 6 years without any issues.

 

I know for a fact that one of the biggest issues with EDGY heads over the years was the consistency of the castings coming out of the foundry he was using.  He had a lot of core shift and porosity problems, and for one reason or another they weren't working together to find the root cause. I know one of the foundries he was using he had about about a 20% reject rate.  I do suppose if you had a head that had significant core shift and/or porosity it would lead to hot spots and overheating.

 

The reason I chose EDELBROCK to do the new castings, even though they are more expensive, is their communication and willingness to improve upon the product. the patterns will be scanned, 3D modeled, and improved upon to meet modern specifications.

 

As far as performance improvements, we have taken what we have learned on the flowbench with our Bonneville flatheads and made some subtle improvements in the chamber design.

 

The chambers will also be CNC machined.  The Gen I EDGY heads had as-cast chambers and we have found variances as large as 3cc per chamber on one head.

 

Finally, the entire head will be CNC machined. Earl machined each head on the old Bridgeport in his garage.  Edelbrock is manufacturing the Gen II heads A-Z; pattern improvements, better casting quality and consistency, better QC, and CNC machining, including the combustion chambers.

 

All that being said, I'm confident that any rumors floating around, true or not, will be non-issues when the first batch of Gen IIs is done in June.

 

PS- if anyone has any first-hand knowledge of problems with the old EDGY heads, please let me know.  If you return a damaged Gen I EDGY head to me that had a manufacturing defect, I will sell you one of my Gen IIs to you for my cost.

Edited January 25, 2018 by MoparMontana

[Andydodge]

I also will be placing an order for the F head once my Lotto winnings come thru...........maybe I should buy a ticket, seriously tho' I have always been impressed with Earls work especially since I received my Edgy a few yrs ago, however things changed and was not able to complete the engine build........anyway looking at the rocker boxes are their design based on the Riley Ford OHV conversion from the 1930's as they appear very similar but more importantly do you have any pics of the combustion chamber side of the head?............couple more questions........lol...........are those 2 bosses cast into the front & rear of the head for machining location setup? and the injection.......WOW...........lol...........any more pics of the head?..........lol...........thanks......Andy Douglas       

[Andydodge]

So, has Earl sold to rights etc to you?..............not trying to be nosey but Earl was to some extant looked upon as somewhat of a savior by some of us Mopar Morons and I just hope he is still getting some credit for what he did/does............Andy Douglas    

[MoparMontana]

5 minutes ago, Andydodge said:

So, has Earl sold to rights etc to you?..............not trying to be nosey but Earl was to some extant looked upon as somewhat of a savior by some of us Mopar Morons and I just hope he is still getting some credit for what he did/does............Andy Douglas    

Andy,  Earl hates the business side of it. He has been a friend since Chris and I first started crewing for him at Bonneville in 2004, and he started sponsoring the Fast Four Special when we started running in 2008.  Every time he threatened to quit making heads, which he did a lot, I suggested that he let me do the production, sales and marketing stuff so he could free up time to continue to make patterns. I like the stuff he hates, but I am not smart enough to do what he does.  When his local foundry closed this year, called me and said "lets do it". He still owns the patterns, but I am producing and marketing the heads, intakes, cams, etc (as well as forged pistons, studs, etc) and paying him a royalty for each EDGY product sold.  It's better for everyone. We can both stick to what we're good at, and he will have more time to make patterns. You should see the HEMI head!  More importantly, everything will be on the shelf, ready to ship as soon as we're 100% up and running.

[MoparMontana]

2 hours ago, P15-D24 said:

How mother Mopar was going to do it...

Just wait....

 

[RNR1957NYer]

I bought a head from Earl a year ago and can't wait to rebuild the 230 motor I picked up and install it.  We MoPar folk don't have many places to turn for speed parts and  I wish all the best to you and Earl in this new endeavor - I'll be contacting you about a cam and some other goodies.  One immediate question:  the Montana Dodge Boys used to sell a decal on your web site that was in the style of the '60's Dodge Boys salesmen blazer patch; I recently went to buy a pair for the quarter windows of my P12 and the listing was gone - are they available?

Edited January 26, 2018 by RNR1957NYer
left out an important word

[Andydodge]

MoparMontana......is it Peter or Chris?...........many thanks for the replies and info.......and whats this "hemi" reference............lol............how long were the pushrods going to be in the OHV version?, they look to have been at least 12".......lol............btw I just realised that one important benefit of both the planned/proposed DOHC/OHV setups would have been no more Water Distribution Tube......yippee!!......lol...........thanks again & best wishes, Andy Douglas  

[55 Fargo]

2 hours ago, MoparMontana said:

Andy,  Earl hates the business side of it. He has been a friend since Chris and I first started crewing for him at Bonneville in 2004, and he started sponsoring the Fast Four Special when we started running in 2008.  Every time he threatened to quit making heads, which he did a lot, I suggested that he let me do the production, sales and marketing stuff so he could free up time to continue to make patterns. I like the stuff he hates, but I am not smart enough to do what he does.  When his local foundry closed this year, called me and said "lets do it". He still owns the patterns, but I am producing and marketing the heads, intakes, cams, etc (as well as forged pistons, studs, etc) and paying him a royalty for each EDGY product sold.  It's better for everyone. We can both stick to what we're good at, and he will have more time to make patterns. You should see the HEMI head!  More importantly, everything will be on the shelf, ready to ship as soon as we're 100% up and running.

Hemi Head? Very Interesting as Arty Johnston would say on " Laugh In".....

[P15-D24]

I think some of the design work ended up in the hemi inline six they used in Australia instead of the slant six.

From the reading I have done on the internet the inline hemi was/is a very good engines, better than the slant six. 

[55 Fargo]

11 minutes ago, P15-D24 said:

I think some of the design work ended up in the hemi inline six they used in Australia instead of the slant six.

From the reading I have done on the internet the inline hemi was/is a very good engines, better than the slant six. 

Interesting.

On the slants made the top 10 best engines of all time in the world.

Durable bullet proof little buggers..

[Young Ed]

1 hour ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Hemi Head? Very Interesting as Arty Johnston would say on " Laugh In".....

When the hemi was being developed they tested head designs on their current engine which was the flathead. Somewhere I've got a picture of their hemi head 6. I may have even posted it way back. 

[55 Fargo]

Question for MM?

Can you give our members an idea how fast in both off the line mid range and top end the Fhead supercharged 31 Desoto is.

How could it be compared to even  a mild built 265 in a comparable sized vehicle.

The 31 Desoto is 1 of my all time favorite go fast flattie 6s..

 

[Andydodge]

P15-D24.........Re the Oz "Hemi" 6 that were used here from 1970 to 1981 when the last of the Oz Valiants were made,  they were available in 215/245 & 265 cubic capacity but were a Hemi in the true sense of the word as much as Ii am a Martian.........a real Hemi they were NOT........... they were not a crossflow as both intake and exhaust were on the US drivers side and the closest they got to being a hemi as far as I know is that the intake and exhaust valves were angled towards each other maybe 50-10 degrees BUT ALONG the same axis as the cylinders..............I'd be surprised to hear that any of the DOHC or other OHV design had an influence on the Oz use of the "hemi" six.............maybe some of the bolts used were the same.........lol.............andyd  

[MoparMontana]

11 hours ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Question for MM?

Can you give our members an idea how fast in both off the line mid range and top end the Fhead supercharged 31 Desoto is.

How could it be compared to even  a mild built 265 in a comparable sized vehicle.

The 31 Desoto is 1 of my all time favorite go fast flattie 6s..

 

I would guess a F-head alone easily bumps the HP by 50%. I'm only running 2# of boost, so  maybe 10% more than that.. so maybe 165-180 HP?  It's not a tire smoker, but it  has no issue accelerating and keeping up with modern traffic.  Bot Chris' '35 pickup and my DeSoto easily cruise Montana roads at 75 MPH, and get almost 20 MPG. Neither is really a performance build though.  Mine is on a bone-stock short block.  We are working on two 265 F-heads now, one for Chris' '33 DeSoto and the other for my '33 Chrysler convertible.  These will be full-on hot rod builds with custom Carrillo rods, lightweight forged CP pistons, ARP studs, etc. I'm even considering a stealth EFI set up on mine.

 

As far as the hemi head, one of the reasons Earl stepped back from selling heads was so he can focus on an true OHV head for his Bonneville race car.

[MoparMontana]

 

 

[Vin's 49 Plymouth]

19 minutes ago, MoparMontana said:

I would guess a F-head alone easily bumps the HP by 50%. I'm only running 2# of boost, so  maybe 10% more than that.. so maybe 165-180 HP?  It's not a tire smoker, but it  has no issue accelerating and keeping up with modern traffic.  Bot Chris' '35 pickup and my DeSoto easily cruise Montana roads at 75 MPH, and get almost 20 MPG. Neither is really a performance build though.  Mine is on a bone-stock short block.  We are working on two 265 F-heads now, one for Chris' '33 DeSoto and the other for my '33 Chrysler convertible.  These will be full-on hot rod builds with custom Carrillo rods, lightweight forged CP pistons, ARP studs, etc. I'm even considering a stealth EFI set up on mine.

 

As far as the hemi head, one of the reasons Earl stepped back from selling heads was so he can focus on an true OHV head for his Bonneville race car.

 

Beautiful photo, my great grandfather started the first Montana state fish hatchery. Their lake was just north Kalispell and fed into flathead lake. Here is a photo of my grandfather in the hatchery truck in the late 1920's.

[55 Fargo]

2 hours ago, MoparMontana said:

I would guess a F-head alone easily bumps the HP by 50%. I'm only running 2# of boost, so  maybe 10% more than that.. so maybe 165-180 HP?  It's not a tire smoker, but it  has no issue accelerating and keeping up with modern traffic.  Bot Chris' '35 pickup and my DeSoto easily cruise Montana roads at 75 MPH, and get almost 20 MPG. Neither is really a performance build though.  Mine is on a bone-stock short block.  We are working on two 265 F-heads now, one for Chris' '33 DeSoto and the other for my '33 Chrysler convertible.  These will be full-on hot rod builds with custom Carrillo rods, lightweight forged CP pistons, ARP studs, etc. I'm even considering a stealth EFI set up on mine.

 

As far as the hemi head, one of the reasons Earl stepped back from selling heads was so he can focus on an true OHV head for his Bonneville race car.

Good Stuff, MM Im hoping my 265 build yields me enough new power to quench the thirst....LOL

This engine, a 265 from a Massey Combine, has a cam profile of .375 lift duration unknown.

What could you tell me on this stock IND 265 cam, needs to be replaced or not for cruising and street use.

I already have dual carbs and exhaust on my 228 its replacing, so it will be a nice mild build.

I hope to get 150 HP and torque increase out of the deal....