LMBoise Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 So I am brand new to the forum. I am wrapping up a restoration on an MGB and am just starting to restore a 1948 B1B. A bit crazy going from a roadster to pickup, but I have always loved the old pickups. Anyway, the ‘48has a seized flathead six. Absent pulling it apart, I have done all the standard tricks to break it loose. Based on the Engine number it appears to be out of a Plymouth as the number begins with a P. I have located, for a reasonable cost another flathead six that runs and has good compression, but it has an engine number I cannot seem to track down KDSb*IbI7I. The “b” could be a six, but the KD is totally throwing me off track. I attached a picture for reference. Does anyone know what this came out of? I am assuming it is a 218 thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechresto Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) '57 dodge 230.6 Lot of them used in taxi service On January 10, 1957, the engine prefix on the six changed from "D72" to "KDS6", starting at number 9601. About that time DeSoto began building six cylinder DeSoto Firesweep sedans for use as taxis. 139 6-cylinder 1957 DeSoto Firesweep taxis were built. Edited January 23, 2018 by mechresto More info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dozerman51 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 Hey mechresto, Thanks for the history lesson. Heck if any those Firesweep taxis are still around, they could be collectors items due to having the 251 flathead in them versus the V-8’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechresto Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 I've been quietly waiting....eventually an old taxi will surface.... I'd really love to build an old gasser...just for the **its and giggles, always thought a checker would be fun, awful heavy, but fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMBoise Posted January 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 Thanks for the quick reply! So it s a 230 not a 218 and came out of a dodge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechresto Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 Bit of a gray area there, but everything points to dodge.... Desoto used some dodge engines in 57 (they were the same) and some argue that the kds6 denoted desoto....but there's no concrete proof that I know of. Kinda like splitting hairs...same engine possible different branding. In 57,58...corporate started calling the shots on engine design...the use of common parts...just as today...all in an effort to save a buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Evans Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 Is the KDS6 engine 23" long or 25" long? Your existing 218 should be 23" long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 Chrycoman Posted 2013-08-26 10:50 PM (#393555 - in reply to #393329) Subject: Re: KDS6*I6432* Expert Posts: 1638 Location: Vancouver, BC d500neil - 2013-08-25 4:43 PM That would be a 6 cylinder 1957 Dodge engine block. K: 1957 D; Dodge S: Standard 6: whatchagot 16432: 15,432nd 6-banger cast (beginning with 1001) Actually, the S stands for DeSoto. The 1957 DeSoto Firesweep used Dodge's 325-cid V8 and the engine number prefix on the 1957 325 engine was KDS - 1957 Dodge DeSoto. When the 1957 model year began, the Dodge six cylinder engine number prefix was D72. But on January 11, 1957, the engine number prefix was changed to KDS6 at number 9601 when DeSoto began building six cylinder Firesweep 4dr sedans for the taxi market. The Firesweep six was not much of a success - total production hit 139 units. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMBoise Posted January 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 This is great info. I will measure the block to confirm the size. Would a 230 fit in the ‘48 Pilothouse. I have the truck stored offsite, so will go measure to see if it fits, but thought I would ask to see what everyone thinks. Thanks for for the Help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dozerman51 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 All Dodge and Plymouth motors installed in their cars used the 23” block. The 230 motor will fit “Like a bug in a rug” in your Pilothouse providing you have the proper front engine mount, bellhousing and ring gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dozerman51 Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 Should preface my above statement by saying all US produced Dodge and Plymouth cars. The Canadian built cars all used the larger 25” blocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMBoise Posted January 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2018 Interesting, the block is 25” and the head is 23” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Roberts Posted January 24, 2018 Report Share Posted January 24, 2018 9 minutes ago, LMBoise said: Interesting, the block is 25” and the head is 23” Huh ? How can that be ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashBuddy Posted January 24, 2018 Report Share Posted January 24, 2018 Some shrinkage expected? Remember to wash in cold water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 measured the water pump as well by accident? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMBoise Posted January 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Not 100% sure. I had a friend run a tape on it as I am storing at his shop and am out of town for a few days. I thought I read somewhere that the head bolt pattern on a 218 is different than a 230, so I thought I would look into that a bit more. It does have the fluid drive, something I have never seen before. I got that pulled off and the engine up on a stand so I can start working on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branded Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 218 and 230 blocks and heads are the same, difference between the 2 is the crankshaft stroke length. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dozerman51 Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 Very easy way to tell a stock 23” from a stock 25” is by the intake/exhaust manifold(if still on the motor). The 25” motor has thru bolts and nuts that attach the intake to the exhaust manifold. The 23” motor has blind studs and nuts or bolts that attach into the intake manifold from the bottom of the exhaust manifold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMBoise Posted January 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 So the head does measure 23”. The block, if measured down low, by where the flywheel attaches is 25”. I am probably not measuring in the correct place for the block, probably screwing up terminology. Clearly where the head attaches it is 23”. Also, per Dozerman51, it is a 218 as there are no pass through bolts on the exhaust manifold where it attaches to the intake manifold. I attached pics for reference. Just to confirm, I do plan on measuring the stroke as suggested. Thanks for all of the help.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted January 26, 2018 Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 The head measurement is what is referred to. You have a small block, 23", engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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