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R&D Dodge

Valve guides, Spitfire

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I've never heard of a Mopar flathead engine that didn't have replaceable valve guides. You should be able to obtain new guides and press them in. And there are no valve stem seals needed for these engines.

Also, the Spitfire thing is only a marketing thing with a name cast into the head. There's nothing special about that engine that I'm aware of. The Spitfire was used in Chrysler cars only as I understood it. However, some people have taken those heads and put them on other engines. Do you have a 25" engine?

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Welcome Doug, i don't have a Spitfire but i recently replaced the valve guides in my B4D with the motor in the truck. :)

if the motor was out of the truck i probably would have had them pressed out/ in as Merle mentioned. but i am WAY too lazy for that :D 

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First of all, thank you much for your replies gentleman.  I am new to the vintage Chryslers but excited to better understand things and move forward with my project.  It is a 25" head, and I did see Brents video while snooping around a week or so ago.  I guess I thought somewhere I read that in this engine they weren't replaceable so that is very good news for sure.  I have to hand it to Brent, that was a very creative idea in the guide removal and thank you much for posting.  Wondering, how much pressure it takes to push guide out and where to purchase guides?  When we purchased the truck a valve was stuck in which I figured as long as I had removed the head I might as well do the valves and as long as I tossed a keeper down into the pan I figure I might as well pull the pan as well!!

 

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46 minutes ago, R&D Dodge said:

First of all, thank you much for your replies gentleman.  I am new to the vintage Chryslers but excited to better understand things and move forward with my project.  It is a 25" head, and I did see Brents video while snooping around a week or so ago.  I guess I thought somewhere I read that in this engine they weren't replaceable so that is very good news for sure.  I have to hand it to Brent, that was a very creative idea in the guide removal and thank you much for posting.  Wondering, how much pressure it takes to push guide out and where to purchase guides?  When we purchased the truck a valve was stuck in which I figured as long as I had removed the head I might as well do the valves and as long as I tossed a keeper down into the pan I figure I might as well pull the pan as well!!

 

Sounds like one of those never ending rabbit holes... :D

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Nice truck. As was mentioned the Spitfire head was a Chrysler only head in the states. Might be different in Canada. Nothing special about the head except the Spitfire logo. So your engine may not be original. If you can post the engine numbers found on a raised "boss" above the generator on the engine block (as seen in the photo below) someone here should be able to tell you what engine you have.

headfront1.jpg

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3 hours ago, R&D Dodge said:

 Wondering, how much pressure it takes to push guide out and where to purchase guides?  When we purchased the truck a valve was stuck in which I figured as long as I had removed the head I might as well do the valves and as long as I tossed a keeper down into the pan I figure I might as well pull the pan as well!!

 

I found a guy local to me with nos but you could ask VPW https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxzO_Oy1EMLIWVFzSHRzNjlOMWs/view

I used a air hammer to remove and install. I had a special tool made to fit the exhaust guide  

5995fa2e16e0d_vguides.JPG.48a2af8c6dde565087c714593d5cab72.JPG

 

FYI, I was trying to be lazy as mentioned before :) but this method didn't work for me

 

 

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Excellent pictures.  Regarding the special exhaust tool, was this designed to be used with the air hammer or was it used to install guides or both? And you indicated the video with the threaded rod procedure did not work for you..  Was this because guides were too tight?  Bad news is, our numbers appear to of been ground off the boss, I read that this often happened if block was rebuilt??  One problem I am having is getting the valves to pop out of spring keeper cups.  I will take a second look at the pad and make certain.  Also will take pictures of engine and add to post.  I have trouble posting pictures through google and have to use explorer, however when I click on my profile explorer closes the page for whatever reason in which I then have to log back in..So I will keep trying.  

Gentleman, I can't thank you enough for your help.  


 

Edited by R&D Dodge

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2 hours ago, R&D Dodge said:

Excellent pictures.  Regarding the special exhaust tool, was this designed to be used with the air hammer or was it used to install guides or both? And you indicated the video with the threaded rod procedure did not work for you..  Was this because guides were too tight?  Bad news is, our numbers appear to of been ground off the boss, I read that this often happened if block was rebuilt??  One problem I am having is getting the valves to pop out of spring keeper cups.  I will take a second look at the pad and make certain.  Also will take pictures of engine and add to post.  I have trouble posting pictures through google and have to use explorer, however when I click on my profile explorer closes the page for whatever reason in which I then have to log back in..So I will keep trying.  

Gentleman, I can't thank you enough for your help.  

On a side note, and not to get all sappy and crap but, this truck has kind of became special for me.  I grew up working for my Father as a teen in his trucking business, we had gravel trains and did most of the maintenance work ourselves in which my brother and I learned much through the years working for my Dad and our mechanic.  We got out of the business years ago, after many years of hard work and my Dad having his first heart attack.  My Dad recently turned 86, my wife, myself and children took a vacation and found the truck last summer and got it home about a month ago on a handshake deal.  We then had a party a few weeks ago after purchasing it in which we invited a few of my Dad's old friends sons he knew back in the day so he could visit with them being they also grew up in the business.  We had the truck parked out in our field with old company decals which we placed on the doors and had planned to let him know we intended to keep his legacy alive and knew he would get a kick out of the truck and seeing some of his buds son's.  Unfortunately his health prevented him from being there and unable to see the truck, however I was able to show him a picture while in the hospital.  So, after my Dad passing a couple weeks ago, our Dodge truck has become kind of special being I am able to have my two boys help me tinker on it which is sparking many memories of working with my Dad and all his bitching while I was thinking of girls instead of breaking down tires... He taught us much and I am grateful.  Being able to come to this forum for advice and help is nice.  Thanks again,
Very Truly Doug.

That's not being sappy......you loved your Father very much and are showing how grateful you are for the way you were raised...I hope my kids are like you someday...lol.

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On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 3:11 PM, R&D Dodge said:

...... you indicated the video with the threaded rod procedure did not work for you..  Was this because guides were too tight?

 in the video he used a 3/8" threaded rod and my guides were only 11/32" ID.... the closest threaded rod I could find was 5/16". my guides were so tight it snapped that 5/16" rod in half and that left me with almost no way to remove the rod with the nut sitting on top of the tappet.......

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On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 5:11 PM, R&D Dodge said:

Excellent pictures.  Regarding the special exhaust tool, was this designed to be used with the air hammer or was it used to install guides or both? And you indicated the video with the threaded rod procedure did not work for you..  Was this because guides were too tight?  Bad news is, our numbers appear to of been ground off the boss, I read that this often happened if block was rebuilt??  One problem I am having is getting the valves to pop out of spring keeper cups.  I will take a second look at the pad and make certain.  Also will take pictures of engine and add to post.  I have trouble posting pictures through google and have to use explorer, however when I click on my profile explorer closes the page for whatever reason in which I then have to log back in..So I will keep trying.  

Gentleman, I can't thank you enough for your help.  

On a side note, and not to get all sappy and crap but, this truck has kind of became special for me.  I grew up working for my Father as a teen in his trucking business, we had gravel trains and did most of the maintenance work ourselves in which my brother and I learned much through the years working for my Dad and our mechanic.  We got out of the business years ago, after many years of hard work and my Dad having his first heart attack.  My Dad recently turned 86, my wife, myself and children took a vacation and found the truck last summer and got it home about a month ago on a handshake deal.  We then had a party a few weeks ago after purchasing it in which we invited a few of my Dad's old friends sons he knew back in the day so he could visit with them being they also grew up in the business.  We had the truck parked out in our field with old company decals which we placed on the doors and had planned to let him know we intended to keep his legacy alive and knew he would get a kick out of the truck and seeing some of his buds son's.  Unfortunately his health prevented him from being there and unable to see the truck, however I was able to show him a picture while in the hospital.  So, after my Dad passing a couple weeks ago, our Dodge truck has become kind of special being I am able to have my two boys help me tinker on it which is sparking many memories of working with my Dad and all his bitching while I was thinking of girls instead of breaking down tires... He taught us much and I am grateful.  Being able to come to this forum for advice and help is nice.  Thanks again,
Very Truly Doug.

What a great tribute to your dad.  I'm sorry for his passing, but it sounds like you have valuable memories of him.

And by the way, I love the look of your truck.

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Thanks Brent, I keep looking at the guides hoping it will be that easy while preparing for valve seat, deck and stud work and sure I may be bugging you again before I get into the guides.  Wishing I hadn't got rid of an old engine manual I had as a kid while wondering what the specs are for the valve guide wear. not all of them appear bad, but if they slide in and out nicely like the video I'll do them all.

Thank you Matt, my Dad was a hard working guy who just did his best to raise 6 of us.  I was fortunate to have him as long as we did.

We love the look of the old pyle as well, and hope to really enjoy it in the near future.

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Hello there.. To anyone interested my progress is a bit slow but moving forward.  Valves out, one keeper dropped into oil pan, excited to remove pan in search of it being I will be able to scope out the lower end.  Springs are a bit difficult to remove with guides in, I have pulled one, wondering if there is a simple procedure I am overlooking in removing.  Getting ready to attempt to push guides out but apprehensive.  The two center lower exhaust manifold bolts broke, and as luck would have it I then broke an easy out off in the first one I attempted to extract.  Tried welding washer, then nut, etc. to no avail even after pre heating stud but couldn't get enough penetration into stud which nuts just kept breaking off.  Lack of welding skills most probable issue...  I was very very lucky I got the hole on center and drilled all the way through the stud.  This was a trick I learned as a kid working on big trucks.  I was able to take an air chisel and drive the broken portion of the easy-out  through the stud then start over..  The bad is, the piece is still in the water jacket but I will try to recover it. De mounted 3 tires and re-mounted with decent used ones we picked up which had nice new tubes and flaps.  Have four total, they were off an industrial air compressor with most of life being stationary where tires have started to dry rot and have the typical Michelin sidewall cracking, but flaps and tubes like new. Fun thing was I was able to have my oldest son at 16 change two of them after I showed him how.  After 37 years I can still knock one apart in record time and fortunate enough to have my Dad's tire hammer and pry bars.  If anyone wants a lesson I have one more to change... 

Thanks much to the several gentlemen who reached out in messages with tips and advice on the valve project.  I have spent quite a bit of time researching the site and snooping around, appreciate the plethora of shared knowledge.

So sorry to anyone currently affected by the many disasters currently going on.

Very Truly, Doug.

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Wow cool!! I really need to go to Bonneville one day. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would enjoy seeing some pictures of that BSA hint hint...A good friend of mine has a brother which held a record a couple years ago, the car is Bombshell Betty, very cool.  His name is Jeff Brock, a year later or so he came down with cancer and I believe he is doing much better now.  Bonneville has always been on the bucket list...

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the BSA Rocket 3 was at the time the worlds fastest production bike...key word is production.....of course many folks had modified but that is another class completely...I never got to ride one of them, had to settle for my 850 Norton Commando and other street bikes and the ride on my bud's Honda CBX 1000..at the time (pre crouch rocket) an awesome experience..

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In 1969 BSA was offering a new motorcycle to anyone who set a speed record at Bonneville with a rocket 3. The record was around 130MPH. First run I hit 116. Next run was the last for me as the transmission case cracked and no spare was available. But it was a fun week. I met Burt Munro in person and touched the worlds fastest Indian.

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