Does fluid drive create oil pressure issues?

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, dpollo said:

Hy Drive does not fit just any block 23 or 25 inch.  The block must have the machined surfaces to mate up with the  adapter  plate to provide oil to the  torque converter and return it to the pan.   Blocks cast in 53 and 4 and possibly some later ones have this feature but on later blocks the return hole was not drilled.  The supply was from the back of  the  oil gallery and would have a threaded plug if there was no Hydrive.  Same for the semi-autos with engine-fed torque converters.

So,I have a Hy Drive trans in my 55 Plymouth parts car?

Does this mean I would have trouble bolting a standard trans bellhousing to the block,and using a manual floor shift transmission if I use this engine in my 42 Dodge?

[p24-1953]

On 6/19/2017 at 10:54 PM, dpollo said:

 

Wish I had all this stuff now.    Hydrive with Overdrive .  Possible but I have never seen or heard of one.

 

On 6/19/2017 at 11:11 PM, Plymouthy Adams said:

I know of one hy-drive with both.

Plymouthy Adams are you thinking of mine? Or have you heard of an another.  The fast second with the overdrive split is great for traffic.  I don't know how many george has made but best investment in my car.

[p24-1953]

Isn't the flywheel and bolts also different?

[dpollo]

56 minutes ago, knuckleharley said:

So,I have a Hy Drive trans in my 55 Plymouth parts car?

Does this mean I would have trouble bolting a standard trans bellhousing to the block,and using a manual floor shift transmission if I use this engine in my 42 Dodge?

HyDrive was not offered in 55.    The 55 engine might accept a HyDrive.   A standard bellhousing will fit any HyDrive block so long as the oil gallery has a plug put in it.  One of the HyDrives I had , the one which I took apart , had the usual 8 hole crankshaft.    The crankshaft  does the same job no matter what is coupled to it so there is no reason why HyDrive would need a special bolt pattern but I have heard that some used only six holes.  The parts manual shows no different crankshaft for HyDrive but does indicate " Note 24 ", something that I searched for in vain.  As for the question immediately above, a Hydrive torque converter  just as a Fluid Drive Unit takes the place of the conventional flywheel.

HyDrive engines use an oil pump  which has the pressure relief valve in the cover. The conventional pressure relief valve on the left side of the block remains in place.

[knuckleharley]

Thank you!

[p24-1953]

When changing my hydrive out with the overdrive/hydrive i seem to recall the bolts on the flywheel had a odd shaped head (tapered) and I recall being instructed to mark and reinstall In  The exact same configuration.   But it has been 10 years and my memory might be off.  I do have a hydrive service manual from plymouth if I need to look anything up.  Maybe I could find the missing note #24

[greg g]

I wonder if the additional mass of the fluid drive has the effect of accelerating the wear on the rear main bearing, and perhaps the next one also.  This would perhaps open the tolerances on those bearings not enough to cause failure, but enough to have a small negative effect on oil pressure over the years. That and a lower idle speed shows up as under 15 to 20 psi while at a stop.

[Dodgeb4ya]

The #4 main bearing is different because of material used and probably flange size thickness. This is noted in my old 1950's thru 1971 Federal Mogul books.

Fluid Drive/ and TQ engines are noted as requiring a different # 4 rear main bearing....

[Plymouthy Adams]

Bob, sent  you a link to the Federal Mogul website and such....what date is this book?  There is no reference to the 890 M SB anywhere on their website...all application Dodge Plymouth 218/230 calls for 415M bearing set across the board.  No note on the application for specifics either.  Am thinking they have addressed a known issue in the past to a new part that will service all applications.  Again I thank you for your time and expertise here.  Trying to prevent folks from using wrong parts is all.

[Dodgeb4ya]

The pages I have shown are from the mid fifties as there are three different FM books I have shown with part numbers. Same #'s used up through 1971.

I'm not telling anyone to use my books at all or to follow what they say.. Just showing thru all those years they did say FD and torque converter cars should use a heavy service # 4 rear main bearing.

I do buy nice clean old stock big name bearings and other critical parts for my cars and trucks instead of modern day import parts and my old books help me do this so I don't have poor quality part failures.

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

ok....armed with the very part numbers provided by Dodgeb4ya I was able to look at all the bearings by exact part number.   Here is the difference by visual inspection ONLY of the actual products 9188 and 9189  the 9188 non fluid drive and non torque converter has a undercut bearing surface between the radius for the journal on one side only and the 9189 does not have this loss of material and will fit the journal radii to radii.  Now looking on the Fed Mogul website and the latest and greatest kit the 415M which seems to be the only style being produced today.  The picture of it does not to my eye show that cut (not the best pic of #4) and looks as if it is a radii to radii fit also and thus would be correct for FD and Hy-drive.  It would seem in my opinion that they may have gone to one bearing, the overall better and wider faced #4. for all applications.   IF anyone here has a set of these 415M or other modern say Clevite etc and can show a close up picture of number 4 bearing halves....I would love to do a comparison.  

 

IF you are using or plan to use NOS bearings....DO follow the guidelines and part number Dodgeb4ya posted......and if you get the modern 415M set and until I physically lay my eyes onto a better set of pic of number 4 bearing and verify IF or IF NOT a step....be cautioned to look out for this loss of material.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Plymouthy Adams