new guy

[classiccarjack]

I have been using Kroil for a couple of years. I ran out last weekend and tried the new WD 40 rust penetration product.  It enabled me to free up a stuck 237 after soaking it for 4 hours...  I may have a new tool to add to my handy chemical list....   I will try it on a headless 230 I have.  I will try to remember my results and post.  I am sorry to get off subject here.  

I am so thrilled to hear that you got your car running.  I can't wait to hear what happens next!

[knuckleharley]

3 hours ago, classiccarjack said:

I have been using Kroil for a couple of years. I ran out last weekend and tried the new WD 40 rust penetration product.  It enabled me to free up a stuck 237 after soaking it for 4 hours...  I may have a new tool to add to my handy chemical list....   I will try it on a headless 230 I have.  I will try to remember my results and post.  I am sorry to get off subject here.

Please do.  I think this is a subject that interests us all.

[oldmopar]

I have not tried the wd40 rust penetrate will have to get a can to test  but the only thing I have found that runs a 2nd a kroil is  Liquid wrench L112 penetrating

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ZZWNYG/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3PLJ2ZU6OFJ2D&coliid=I2M8P55I476TGR&psc=1

 

 

[Dartgame]

I used to use  WD 40 for penetrating oil as discussed above. I started using PB blaster a few years ago and have had good luck with it. Something to know about with all of this stuff is the carrier solvent will evaporate over a long time. Not overnight but over weeks depending on temperature. Interested to hear if you can salvage that baby hemi..

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, Dartgame said:

I used to use  WD 40 for penetrating oil as discussed above. I started using PB blaster a few years ago and have had good luck with it. Something to know about with all of this stuff is the carrier solvent will evaporate over a long time. Not overnight but over weeks depending on temperature. Interested to hear if you can salvage that baby hemi..

Well,I already have oil leaking past the rings on 4 cylinders for sure,and I THINK 2 more are starting to drain down. And this is with the engine still sitting upright,and the oil only affecting the bottoms of the pistons were  the clay was impacted the most solid.

Going to go out there this afternoon if it stops raining,and tilt the block up on one side so I can cover the entire tops of 4 pistons. The parts of each cylinder closest to the intake manifold should be the most open to receive oil because the clay was packed in on the opposite sides of each piston. MY theory is that it will loosen right up once I the entire piston tops with Kroil because it will quickly weep down to the rings,and then down the rings to the bottom.

I am confident to the point where I would bet money I can free it up in a half-day by putting the heads back on and hooking my air compressor to each cylinder one by one,but I want to see how long it will take by letting gravity and the penetrating qualities of the oil do the job by  themselves..

[classiccarjack]

On 2/15/2017 at 11:40 AM, knuckleharley said:

Well,I already have oil leaking past the rings on 4 cylinders for sure,and I THINK 2 more are starting to drain down. And this is with the engine still sitting upright,and the oil only affecting the bottoms of the pistons were  the clay was impacted the most solid.

Going to go out there this afternoon if it stops raining,and tilt the block up on one side so I can cover the entire tops of 4 pistons. The parts of each cylinder closest to the intake manifold should be the most open to receive oil because the clay was packed in on the opposite sides of each piston. MY theory is that it will loosen right up once I the entire piston tops with Kroil because it will quickly weep down to the rings,and then down the rings to the bottom.

I am confident to the point where I would bet money I can free it up in a half-day by putting the heads back on and hooking my air compressor to each cylinder one by one,but I want to see how long it will take by letting gravity and the penetrating qualities of the oil do the job by  themselves..

Did you get an opportunity to free up your Hemi?

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, classiccarjack said:

Did you get an opportunity to free up your Hemi?

It sat for a little over 2 days with no real progress being made. In fact,one of the cylinders in that bank that had been leaking down before stopped leaking down. My theory is enough trash had floated loose to cause another blockage. I had decided to give up and just put a head back on that bank and hook it to 150 psi of air once I came back from eating breakfast and doing a couple of other things,and being done with it.

When I went back in late this afternoon to look at it,damned if 3 or the 4 cylinders weren't leaking down,so I just let it sit. I prefer to do it the slow way as long as the slow way works because weeping down due to gravity and penetration means the oil will saturate the rings all the way around to free them up,not just in the weakest spot where the air pressure would break though. Less chance of a broken ring and scored bore that way.

If most of the oil in all 4 of those cylinders have leaked down by the time I get a couple of other things tomorrow afternoon,I will roll the block up on the other bank and cover all the pistons there. The other bank had the greatest penetration originally,so I am thinking it will free up easier.

If the first bank hasn't leaked down by Monday morning,the head is going back on it and it's getting pumped full of compressed air after covering all the piston tops again. I want to see what the Kroil would do on it's own in severe conditions like this,but I do have other things that need to be done,so I can't make a career out of it.  One way or another the block is going to be freed up and the heads and intake bolted back on it so I can store it away under a bench and get it out of my way. If I have to,I will pull the crank and drive the pistons out using a wooden block and a BFH,then remove the rings,clean the bores,lube them up good with chain and cable grease,and put it back together without the rings to make damn sure it never sticks again.

Whatever  happens,I will update this thread as it happens.

Edited February 19, 2017 by knuckleharley

[classiccarjack]

4 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

It sat for a little over 2 days with no real progress being made. In fact,one of the cylinders in that bank that had been leaking down before stopped leaking down. My theory is enough trash had floated loose to cause another blockage. I had decided to give up and just put a head back on that bank and hook it to 150 psi of air once I came back from eating breakfast and doing a couple of other things,and being done with it.

When I went back in late this afternoon to look at it,damned if 3 or the 4 cylinders weren't leaking down,so I just let it sit. I prefer to do it the slow way as long as the slow way works because weeping down due to gravity and penetration means the oil will saturate the rings all the way around to free them up,not just in the weakest spot where the air pressure would break though. Less chance of a broken ring and scored bore that way.

If most of the oil in all 4 of those cylinders have leaked down by the time I get a couple of other things tomorrow afternoon,I will roll the block up on the other bank and cover all the pistons there. The other bank had the greatest penetration originally,so I am thinking it will free up easier.

If the first bank hasn't leaked down by Monday morning,the head is going back on it and it's getting pumped full of compressed air after covering all the piston tops again. I want to see what the Kroil would do on it's own in severe conditions like this,but I do have other things that need to be done,so I can't make a career out of it.  One way or another the block is going to be freed up and the heads and intake bolted back on it so I can store it away under a bench and get it out of my way. If I have to,I will pull the crank and drive the pistons out using a wooden block and a BFH,then remove the rings,clean the bores,lube them up good with chain and cable grease,and put it back together without the rings to make damn sure it never sticks again.

Whatever  happens,I will update this thread as it happens.

Good luck, I wish you with success in this mission.  Every time I have tried this, it seems that there is always at least one cylinder that results in a tragedy.  I just freed up a 237.  It was bored .060" over and never ran.  After 30 years, two cylinders stuck.  I did get them to free up, but the compression rings on both cylinders broke.  I know that I have a set of Harley Davidson Evo rings kicking around here somewhere, but I can't find them....  Once I do, I will be good to go!  I am fascinated by the fact that this big six is a 3.4975" bore!  Only cool to us Harley builders I suppose....  LOL

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, classiccarjack said:

Good luck, I wish you with success in this mission.  Every time I have tried this, it seems that there is always at least one cylinder that results in a tragedy.  I just freed up a 237.  It was bored .060" over and never ran.  After 30 years, two cylinders stuck.  I did get them to free up, but the compression rings on both cylinders broke.  I know that I have a set of Harley Davidson Evo rings kicking around here somewhere, but I can't find them....  Once I do, I will be good to go!  I am fascinated by the fact that this big six is a 3.4975" bore!  Only cool to us Harley builders I suppose....  LOL

When I rebuilt my 40 knuckle,I used 74 inch panhead flywheels,rods and pistons instead of the 61 cubic inch 1940 stuff because it was cheaper to do so,and used rings from a V-8 Chevrolet for the same reason.

Used a SU carb from a Volvo,too.

I have literally unstuck at least a dozen engines,and never had a ring break so far. Not even the time I filled the back of a 51 Ford panel truck with cement blocks for weight,and pulled it around a field with a tractor in gear to break it loose. I drove that one for 5 years and it was still running whisper quiet and burning no oil when I had to sell it to move to another state to go to school. I sold it to a restorer for less money than hot rodders had been offering me because I didn't want to see it messed with,and damned if he didn't sell it to Dennis Anderson,and it became the first Grave Digger. Didn't last but a few months before it was flipped and crushed.

Flathead stuff being of no use to him,he most likely sold the engine and trans for scrap.

 

Edited February 19, 2017 by knuckleharley

[neil and ethan]

now that i know how to resize a pic , here are some  more. motor, rad and some spare parts .

  a question , in my screwing around, trying to get spark.  i changed out the coil to a  12 volt one off a 80s  style  kohler, 16 hp motor.    all i had  available .

 .  i thought it would be a weaker spark, ( meant for 12 not 6volt) oddly enough the spark seemed twice as good.

 runs great with it.       strange

[neil and ethan]

bought a 95 explorer,xlt   400 $  and brought i home, on my way to brakes ,  

the explorer itself is a pos  ,(  i remember now why i do not own fords  ) rust worse than the 48,   key is trouble    ,      but the good things .  

 disc brakes  front and back,   pretty new tires, alm rims ,    tranny is gone,  ( no guilt destroying it)   and i do not know why , but i had to get the motor  running.

  finnlay did that after finding out a few things,  first the transmission  is in gear at aLL TIMES . no matter what ,even park .    and it is not linkage

disconnected the drive shaft. and eventually the air flow sensor ,  now it runs.   front drive shaft spinning like crazy . with it in 2 wd .in neutral.

the interior is mint and dual power seats,  center console,  right color grey  .   got a tape out and it looks like it will fit right in.

front and back.

 a lot to do before that, , front disc. rear axle. and   (thinking /hoping)    i can move the master, booster pedal and all into the 48, maybe !

 anyone do that.? 

  will run out of time to do anything on it in a month or so,  seeding coming up.  

     

[neil and ethan]

winter again , can get back to work on the 48.  now.

bought a hoist, a scissor type lifts about 5 ft., sure  making  life easier.   continued the  tear down,  bumpers off, rear fenders, rear arm rests and back flip out windows out.

to do the body work.

fuel tank off and lined,  will have to rebuild the straps.       one rear drum was really really  tough, the other just about fell off,  made 3 angle iron pieces to adapt my 3 jaw puller .

just holes for the wheel bolts  and cut slots for puller. used all 5 bolts. started with little 1/2  Milwaukee impact on puller. then the big one still would not budge. then heated the hub.

tap tap tap. nothing. 3/4 hour later. did not want to break my puller.  heated again , was ready to give up , one last hit and boom , it shot off.

  brakes and drums look good, cylinders are screwed,of course.  front had a broken return spring. (anybody have a # for them?)  finally found reasonable price master slave hose kit.

 so changed my mind . going stock  for now.       have the explorer diff. explorer front disc and L bracket made.  not using for now. so if someone in Saskatchewan or Alberta is interested

they are here.

mostly getting rid of dirt and grime and rust, car will be 100 lbs lighter, long vacuum cleaner hose through the frame rails, worked great.

amazed at the quality of the hardware. spring bolts , shackles  bumper bracket bolts  stabilizer , 70 years old   all came.

twisted some off on fenders. but 95% come off.      see if Chrysler  or someone still supplies rear wheel seals.

next is steering box,  i could not figure out why a 30,000 mile car would have so much slop in it.

found out it was replaced with one from a junker in the 70s. after an accident.

  i will try for update pics soon ,  i enjoy everyone else s.

 

  

   

[knuckleharley]

On 2/18/2017 at 10:02 PM, classiccarjack said:

Did you get an opportunity to free up your Hemi?

Sadly,it still sits on my shop floor,stuck and temporarily abandoned . Other  stuff came up that had to be done NOW,and it just got abandoned until I have time to fool with it.

Next time I mess with it,I will have the heads back on it,and will be using 150 or so lbs of air pressure to "push" the Kroil  past the rings.

[neil and ethan]

must be someone else, , never had a hemi here,  we had to free up this Flathead though.

an older friend of mine with a 48 truck    , broke the piston trying to free it up. 

 he has  now bought   a flat head out of a massey combine to put in.

 picked up a few things today , wipers , shocks rad hoses, and found rear  wheel seals.

   no brake springs yet.   i hate to spend 130$ cdn,  for six brake springs on ebay.

    unless i have to

[1950 Special Deluxe]

Neil,

Good to see back on the site and making progress.

I have not done much more to my 50 in the last year, I am at a spot where I am happy with it.

I restored a 1978 Vespa last year and now am working on a 1967 Honda 90 bike.

Neil

 

[neil and ethan]

your 50 is pretty nice,  i can see why you would move on to other things.

i have an 67   856 international tractor, all striped down . and i still  use it all the time  on augers  . 800$ worth of ppg  paint  waiting for it.

no time, unless i retire,. can't see it.

looking at steering box  on the 48 tonight, there might be hope.of getting the slop out.

got the arm off . etc

i could not for the life of me  figure out why a wire would go thru the steering box.

took a while , but finally  figured it is horn wire.

   

 

[classiccarjack]

On 12/7/2017 at 11:18 AM, knuckleharley said:

Sadly,it still sits on my shop floor,stuck and temporarily abandoned . Other  stuff came up that had to be done NOW,and it just got abandoned until I have time to fool with it.

Next time I mess with it,I will have the heads back on it,and will be using 150 or so lbs of air pressure to "push" the Kroil  past the rings.

I had some success freeing up a 230 using that new WD-40 Rust Inhibitor Stuff.  I was impressed!  I ran out of Kroil and tried it out of desperation.  It has unlocked 4 engines now.  All of which have been left outdoors.  Perhaps I got lucky?

[knuckleharley]

3 hours ago, classiccarjack said:

I had some success freeing up a 230 using that new WD-40 Rust Inhibitor Stuff.  I was impressed!  I ran out of Kroil and tried it out of desperation.  It has unlocked 4 engines now.  All of which have been left outdoors.  Perhaps I got lucky?

 

Maybe,but I have heard a lot of good reports about the WD-40  Rust Inhibitor,too.

Before discovering Kroil,my standard "unstick stuff" product was a home mixture of regular WD-40 and ATF. Anything that wouldn't free up and turn using a breaker bar after sitting for an hour got the valves closed and 150 psi or so of air pressure to push the oil past the rings. I would just sit in a chair next to the car and drink coffee and read a book until I could hear the air making "glub,glub,glub" noises out of the base. I would then move on to the next cylinder and repeat until they all had ATF/WD-40 forced past the rings,and would then turn the engine over using a breaker bar on the balancer nut.

The DeSoto hemi was/is a special challenge. I bought it off a prison guard in Georgia that had been called up in the reserves and sent to the Muddle East. The kids in his neighborhood knew he was a prison guard,and they knew he was gone,so one or more of them pulled the plugs and packed the cylinders full of that red Georgia clay. I discovered this when I went to squirt oil in the cylinders before trying to turn it over. No way was I going to try to spin the engine without pulling the heads and cleaning everything up first. Standard bore with no ridges,too!

I am confident that once I put the heads back on and put pressure on each cylinder that it will free up. There were a few cylinders already allowing the Kroil to seep past the rings using nothing but the force of gravity.

 

[classiccarjack]

On 12/15/2017 at 1:30 AM, knuckleharley said:

 

Maybe,but I have heard a lot of good reports about the WD-40  Rust Inhibitor,too.

Before discovering Kroil,my standard "unstick stuff" product was a home mixture of regular WD-40 and ATF. Anything that wouldn't free up and turn using a breaker bar after sitting for an hour got the valves closed and 150 psi or so of air pressure to push the oil past the rings. I would just sit in a chair next to the car and drink coffee and read a book until I could hear the air making "glub,glub,glub" noises out of the base. I would then move on to the next cylinder and repeat until they all had ATF/WD-40 forced past the rings,and would then turn the engine over using a breaker bar on the balancer nut.

The DeSoto hemi was/is a special challenge. I bought it off a prison guard in Georgia that had been called up in the reserves and sent to the Muddle East. The kids in his neighborhood knew he was a prison guard,and they knew he was gone,so one or more of them pulled the plugs and packed the cylinders full of that red Georgia clay. I discovered this when I went to squirt oil in the cylinders before trying to turn it over. No way was I going to try to spin the engine without pulling the heads and cleaning everything up first. Standard bore with no ridges,too!

I am confident that once I put the heads back on and put pressure on each cylinder that it will free up. There were a few cylinders already allowing the Kroil to seep past the rings using nothing but the force of gravity.

 

Children don't quite understand what harm they can do.  My 10 year old beat the taillight lenses out of my 1937 Dodge with a hammer.  He now knows better, I gave him a eBay tour just to show how much those lenses cost...

[Plymouthy Adams]

18 minutes ago, classiccarjack said:

Children don't quite understand what harm they can do.  My 10 year old beat the taillight lenses out of my 1937 Dodge with a hammer.  He now knows better, I gave him a eBay tour just to show how much those lenses cost...

did the tour run through his piggy bank.......???????????????

[pflaming]

Ironically, he was just trying to help. I love the story, but like others not the results. 

 

[classiccarjack]

On 12/17/2017 at 4:24 PM, Plymouthy Adams said:

did the tour run through his piggy bank.......???????????????

Nope...  Even better, earning it by working around the ranch.  I feel that if he learns that earning is a result of working for it, he may think twice about being destructive.  Perhaps I am over thinking this?  Hmmmm. 

[classiccarjack]

On 12/17/2017 at 4:37 PM, pflaming said:

Ironically, he was just trying to help. I love the story, but like others not the results. 

 

So true!  Little bugger.... Sigh

[neil and ethan]

tear down continues,   front fenders , off,   had to  for  access  repair rust in front of front doors.

best thing , as I can access everything now.  

 pan off ,  there was a little sludge in the bottom 1/8 to 1/4 inch,    lucky  no surprises .

 all the body to frame bolts I have got loosened, cleaned ,   except  the 2  at drivers and passengers feet , that go directly into the frame.

   afraid to twist them off. , driver side could stay ( not planning on removing body)  ,  but the floor is bad or non existent right there  on passenger side.

 with easy access , I am trying to make sure, every bolt will come apart . clean up reinstall .

  water pump bolts, are really bad. 2  .  I have got 2  for sure.  the  third .  I think is coming  ,  or maybe it is twisting off.  ??????.

 letting it soak another night.

  if it is , now is the time to fix it..       old one worked but , new pump on the way,  change thermostat to 180.

  drivers door could use a shim , to bring it up a bit,  hopefully I can get a bottom hinge loose.

  my wrist needs a rest , from the cordless drill and wire wheel.   

  still lots to do as I avoid , starting the body work.