Why is it called a Plymouth?

[Harbison]

Saw a 1948 Plymouth at my local used car lot today which caused me to take a quick exit. The Canadian owner asked why there were ships all over the car. I explained about the pilgrims and Plymouth Rock. I'm still not sure if he truly understood. But we got to visit about a very original car. Wish I knew how to post a picture.

[deathbound]

This thread may help:

http://p15-d24.com/topic/38967-posting-pics-of-my-car/?hl=%2Bpost+%2Bpicture#entry410114

 

**EDIT**link is for posting pics only.

Edited September 13, 2015 by deathbound

[kevedo]

From what I understand; Chrysler was trying to take more of the rural market away from Mr. Ford. Joe Frazer said, "Every (explitive) farmer in North America's heard of Plymouth Binder-Twine!".

[Plymouthy Adams]

From what I understand; Chrysler was trying to take more of the rural market away from Mr. Ford. Joe Frazer said, "Every (explitive) farmer in North America's heard of Plymouth Binder-Twine!".

yeah..that is why twine is all over the car in every medallion .why it may be two fold, string is not the apparent theme..way back when WP was telling America this the Plymouth was the original Built like a Rock car....only original idea chevy ever had was to steal from everyone else..

[Tim Keith]

Hmmm.... binder twine.   I've heard that story too.   That explains why as compact square bails were gradually replaced with large round bailes that Plymouth faded as well.   Contrasted to "Chevrolet", the name Plymouth sounds like an American story.  I wonder why the name DeSoto was used?   The Plymouth Cordage Company was in Plymouth Mass.

 

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=385&dat=19090601&id=QakaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DTAEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5529,7306588&hl=en

Edited September 14, 2015 by Tim Keith

[Plymouthy Adams]

read up on Desoto and you may be surprised at a number of facts.....do not rad just one account..read a number of accounts of the explorer..one in particular will answer your very question.

[lahti35]

....only original idea chevy ever had was to steal from everyone else..

Too funny!

[MarcDeSoto]

You hit upon a very interesting topic of how do car companies choose the names of their marques.  This question even puzzles me on today's cars.  What exactly is an Elantra or a Veloster?  I think committees choose names and then vote on the winner.  Some marques are just named after the head of the company, such as Ford, Dodge Brothers, and Chrysler.  Some are named after planets or Roman gods, like Mercury and Saturn.  In the case of Plymouth, I think Chrysler wanted a very American sounding name associated with American history.  The pilgrims sailed from Plymouth, England, so then they named the rock where they landed Plymouth Rock.  I guess they could have named the car the Mayflower just as easily.  Some marques were named after early American explorers such as Cadillac and DeSoto.  Here is Allpar's explanation for the choice of DeSoto:

 

The car name honored Hernando de Soto, the 16th century Spaniard who discovered the Mississippi River and had covered more North American territory than any other early explorer (editor’s note: the Chrysler people were probably not aware of During the first twelve months, DeSoto production set a record 81,065 cars. DeSoto built more cars during its first year than had Chrysler, Pontiac, or Graham-Paige. The record stood for nearly thirty years.

[BobT-47P15]

I have also read the binder twine story........makes a lot of sense for it's day.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I have also read the binder twine story........makes a lot of sense for it's day.

I would not think as much myself..more Americans know the Plymouth rock and the Mayflower connection...only a few farmers would be all in all about the twine...Chrysler would be selling themselves short to market just to a small handful of John Q. Publis with that theme...again show me anywhere on the car where a ball of twine is pictured in the medallions or motif in any manner...you will however find the Mayflower ship, and Indians presenting ears of corn as an offering... 

[Young Ed]

I could see the initial name coming up with the twine and then that leading into the more mass appropriate Plymouth rock theme.

[Plymouthy Adams]

would someone care to show a picture of a 1928 Plymouth that had a ball of twine medallion on the radiator shell and not the Mayflower...

 

edited...need a better analogy..

Edited September 15, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams

[Young Ed]

would someone care to show a picture of a 1928 Plymouth that had a ball of twine medallion on the radiator shell and not the Mayflower...

No we all know it was the ship. However I have read that the name was also sourced from the twine. We're not making it up.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Ed,,,I have read that same story..it is purely speculation...there is no historical facts to back this from WPC headquarters that I can draw a direct  connection...now if you were talking about the Chevrolet bowtie and how its came to be, it was a design on wall paper in a French whorehouse and was copied (again stolen and not original to Chevy, need I say more) 

[Don Coatney]

Ed,,,I have read that same story..it is purely speculation...there is no historical facts to back this from WPC headquarters that I can draw a direct  connection...now if you were talking about the Chevrolet bowtie and how its came to be, it was a design on wall paper in a French whorehouse and was copied (again stolen and not original to Chevy, need I say more) 

What is the name and address for verification?

[Plymouthy Adams]

Don..there is a bit of literary license by me on the Bowtie/wholrehouse....but is more plausible than the twine....the story is for you to read....it was a hotel in France...but to what "star rating" or district of its location is not stated.....http://www.chevrolet.com/culture/article/bowtie-history.html

Edited September 15, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams

[Roadkingcoupe]

From what I understand; Chrysler was trying to take more of the rural market away from Mr. Ford. Joe Frazer said, "Every (explitive) farmer in North America's heard of Plymouth Binder-Twine!".

 

That is exactly the story as it was told to me.

There was a meeting, the discussion that ensued required a name that was common and familiar to many.

The binder twine books were used for crops, yields etc. and kept in many glove boxes at the time.

The explanation is very plausible and as far as the "ship" motif.......ever heard of poetic license????

 

"And so the name was Plymouth. The Mayflower ship on its radiator suggested the rock and the Pilgrims, but if it wasn't for the binder twine, there would never have been a car named Plymouth."

 

"Behind the "official line" is a story that surfaced years later. It is about what really happened behind those closed boardroom doors. "What we want," Chrysler had said, "is a popular name, something people will recognize instantly."

In that room was Joe Frazer, later to become president of Graham Motors and still later to join Henry Kaiser in a post-war automotive venture. "Well, boss," replied Frazer, "why not call it Plymouth? That's a good old American name."

The other assembled executives looked askance the notion of their car bearing such a puritanical sounding * name. Yet against his colleagues' misgivings, Joe Frazer persisted. "Ever hear of Plymouth Binder Twine?" he asked.

" Well," boomed out Chrysler, "every goddam farmer in America's heard of that!" The hidden appeal wasn't wasted on this one-time Kansas farm boy. Every farmer had to have a car, and most of them at the time were driving Fords. Now here was an opening to the giant's vulnerability. "Every farmer uses Plymouth Binder Twine," he said, "let's give them a name they're familiar with!"

 

Plymouth Bulletin - source

Edited September 16, 2015 by Roadkingcoupe

[Roadkingcoupe]

Source "PLYMOUTH BULLETIN"

 

"Product of Chrysler engineering and craftsmanship, Plymouth has been so named because its endurance and strength, ruggedness and freedom from limitations so accurately typify that Pilgrim band who were the first American Colonists."

That was the official line.

It sounded quite logical. The name came from the Plymouth colony of the Pilgrims who journeyed to North America on the good ship Mayflower.

And the official line was backed up with pilgrim garb supplied to each dealer with which to dress up some willing (?) employee to lead a Plymouth Parade introducing this new low-priced car for the young Chrysler Corporation.

It was not entirely new, this "new" low-priced car. When Walter P. Chrysler took over the bankrupt Maxwell company in 1923, he finally had the foundation to bring out the car of his dreams; one bearing his own name. However it was soon apparent that the Maxwell name, corrupted by a series of poorly built cars that had brought the company to bankruptcy, was an irretrievable liability. Therefore in 1926, he put a Chrysler radiator on the Maxwell and rechristened it the Chrysler 58 (its supposed top speed).

Yet this move was but a holding action. Already in 1926 Walter Chrysler was planning a full-fledged entry into the low-priced field dominated by Ford and Chevrolet. Indeed, Henry Ford had warned Chrysler, "You'll go broke! Chevrolet and I have the market all sewed up!" But WPC wasn't one to fear to such warnings. In fact he was more likely spurred on by them to prove such warnings wrong. And Ford's rapidly declining Model T sales seemed to indicate that the giant was vulnerable and that the warning could indeed be proven wrong.

To take full advantage of this vulnerability, Chrysler needed the "perfect car with the perfect name." That name was to be "Plymouth." Named after Plymouth Rock, that great American symbol, right? Well, not quite.

Behind the "official line" is a story that surfaced years later. It is about what really happened behind those closed boardroom doors. "What we want," Chrysler had said, "is a popular name, something people will recognize instantly."

In that room was Joe Frazer, later to become president of Graham Motors and still later to join Henry Kaiser in a post-war automotive venture. "Well, boss," replied Frazer, "why not call it Plymouth? That's a good old American name."

The other assembled executives looked askance the notion of their car bearing such a puritanical sounding * name. Yet against his colleagues' misgivings, Joe Frazer persisted. "Ever hear of Plymouth Binder Twine?" he asked.

" Well," boomed out Chrysler, "every goddam farmer in America's heard of that!" The hidden appeal wasn't wasted on this one-time Kansas farm boy. Every farmer had to have a car, and most of them at the time were driving Fords. Now here was an opening to the giant's vulnerability. "Every farmer uses Plymouth Binder Twine," he said, "let's give them a name they're familiar with!"

And so the name was Plymouth. The Mayflower ship on its radiator suggested the rock and the Pilgrims, but if it wasn't for the binder twine, there would never have been a car named Plymouth.

On January 11, 1928 the first Plymouth was produced. As it turned out, this was the best of times for introducing a low-priced car. Ford was just beginning Model A production after nearly a year's shutdown. Chevrolet's six was yet a year away. Hudson's Essex was in decline. Willys' Whippet was selling like hotcakes, but it had already peaked. And, most importantly, the stock market crash of 1929 was yet a year away.

The new Plymouth sold well, reaching Number 15 in production its first (half) year. By 1931 it had already reached the Number Three position, which it would hold until 1954. In 1932, while Chevrolet and Ford sales were dropping drastically from pre-depression highs, Plymouth was the only car to gain in sales over 1931. In fact, all through the Great Depression Plymouth continued to gain in sales, a remarkable feat considering the times.

Henry Ford, as it turned out, was almost right. He had left out one word in his warning to Chrysler. He should have said, "if you don't build a Plymouth, you'll go broke."

[OldDad67]

Don..there is a bit of literary license by me on the Bowtie/wholrehouse....but is more plausible than the twine....the story is for you to read....it was a hotel in France...but to what "star rating" or district of its location is not stated.....http://www.chevrolet.com/culture/article/bowtie-history.html

Sounds like more fun to be had  looking at wallpaper than at ships.

[B-Watson]

Have to remember that before WW II the US and Canada had more people living in rural areas than urban.  Thus more cars were sold in rural areas.  Plymouth binder twine was a big name back then.  Doing research on Canadian-built cars before WW II, I was looking through back issues of Country Guide and its predecessors- back to the early 1920's.  All kinds of car and truck ads, all geared with the farmer in mind.  And also ads for Plymouth binder twine. 

 

Naturally, a ball of twine would not make a good hood ornament, but pulling patriotic strings usually results in positive feelings.  Thus the Mayflower and the rock for advertising purposes.  It was as American as apple pie, as they say.

 

Do not know who wrote the article quoted earlier, but the first Plymouth was built June 11, 1928, at the Highland Park plant.   The new 1929 Plymouth was introduced to the public early in July, 1928.   Shortly after that the new 1929 DeSoto went into production, also at Highland Park, and was introduced to the public at the end of July.   And the new Fargo Truck, sold at Chrysler-Plymouth dealers, was introduced as well. 

 

It was perfect timing.  Ford was getting the Model A up to speed, the new Chevrolet six was a few months away, and the sales of Willys's Whippet were about to tank, with W-O's 1928 sales of 315,000 dropping to 242,000 in 1929 and 69,000 in 1930.   The Whippet was a nice little car, but longevity was not one of the things it was noted for.   The Whippet was said to be like the dog of the same name - stops at every pole.  It was also called the 'Toledo vibrator' as it shook itself to pieces.  One owner said he didn't need a speedometer - he could tell how fast he was going by what shook loose.  The Whippet four engine would reappear for 1933 in the Willys 77, but even with the use of Chrysler's Floating Power (Chrysler gave W-O rights to use it in their cars) it was still noted for its problems.  

 

A new Willys was introduced for 1937 with a streamlined body and a coupe that would be become popular with drag racers.  Over 70,000 were built.  But sales dropped to 16,000 for 1938. 

 

It was not until Willys-Overland's new president, Joseph Washington Frazer, came aboard in 1938 that things would change.  Frazer had Willys engineering chief Delmar (Barney) Roos correct the problems with the engine.  When he was done, Willys-Overland had an engine that could meet and beat the American Army's demands for powering the Jeep, which Frazer also pushed for.    Frazer left W-O in 1943 and he and some business associates acquired the Graham family stock in Graham-Paige.  From that he had Howard "Dutch"  Darrin design a new car for the postwar market, and teamed up with Henry J Kaiser to build cars.  Graham-Paige abandoned the auto market in 1947, and sold their main plant on West Warren Avenue to Chrysler.   Frazer stayed with G-P and retired in the early 1950's.  G-P acquired a number of properties in the 1950's and in 1962 changed its name to its biggest property - Madison Square Garden Corporation.   And Frazer's improved Willys 4 would survive until 1971.

 

J W Frazer was a great salesman but he also knew the importance of styling and engineering in an automobile.  Often wondered what would have happened if he succeeded Walter Chrysler as president instead of K T Keller.

Edited October 16, 2015 by B-Watson