finmad Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 I got this truck and it was converted to 12v. I have had to rebuild the starter twice, it just went again... I am keeping the starter bumps small but it keeps over spinning and flying apart inside, tearing up the windings. Anyone know of a 12v starter that will work with the flat 6's?? Or can I use a reducer in line with the starter to knock down the voltage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) check for cars/trucks from 1956 till end of run...if original starter or good core...it should display a green data tag for 12v compared to that of the red tag for 6v..NOTE however on the conversion to 12 volt the teeth count was changed along the way..you will have to ensure you bendix matches the application per your flywheel...could well be a problem you have now is co mingled parts Edited September 8, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finmad Posted September 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 UUGGHH, who else has converted to 12v?? have you had any issue with your starter? and how did you over come it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Evans Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 I converted my truck to 12 volts 18 years ago. The original 6 volt starter has held up perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 I got this truck and it was converted to 12v. I have had to rebuild the starter twice, it just went again... I am keeping the starter bumps small but it keeps over spinning and flying apart inside, tearing up the windings. Anyone know of a 12v starter that will work with the flat 6's?? Or can I use a reducer in line with the starter to knock down the voltage? I am a bit confused. If the starter is over spinning and tearing up the windings why did you not have the starter re-wound for 12 volts. Did you actually see the failed internal damage to the windings or did the shop doing the work tell you about it? Did the shop not offer a warranty after the first repair? Is the shop aware that you are running this starter on 12 volts? Did the shop replace the armature bushings as part of the repairs? Something sounds really "fishy". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) shops today have little knowledge of the inner workings....they are lucky to get it together let alone stand behind it for a period of time...ask a number of folks here of late that have spent good money with shops that claim up front experience with the very car and age of car only not to have any information, books or other earthly idea of what they are doing and short cut the job, overcharge, keep you good parts/cores and claim that grease is better in an oilite bushing over the proper procedure of soaking in oil...I will not link all shops in this group..but the goodly amout of them fall smack in the middle.. my local auto electric that has been there for ages...well the younger sets of heirs to the old man's legacy is flat dragging the once good name through the mud...when asked of 0 or 00 cables they give you that deer in the headlight stare...they may answer, I shoot deer with 00, and that would be full extend of their knowledge...then they ask for what car..then what length then hand you a size 1 at best cable and said that will fix all your ails... if I sound like I am down on the modern shop...well, yes I am...I make no apologies...again..there are a handful in every dump truck load of shops that may be worth their salt..with the closing of the shop a few miles from me..there is no one that I can recommend to anyone for a base repair regardless of make or model.. Edited September 8, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) When a vechicle is converted from 6V pos., do you convert it to 12V pos.? My truck is is six volt but..???.. SOMEONE .???..toasted a perfectly good starter during the engine irebuild/nstall. The excuse was that I needed a ground strap from the engine to the frame. Does this have anything to do with anything ? Hank Edited September 8, 2015 by HanksB3B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 engine to frame is and frame to body is for accessories...normal connections would be a ground be it + or - to the block..battery to the solenoid or starter if foot activated. and your circuit is complete..you can fry a few smaller wires if the starter is trying to seek ground through a light gauge wire to the body or frame when the cable is connected to these point...but usually the failure is the small wire as it is the weak link.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokeyC3 Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 I think many do run their 6 volt starters on 12 volts without issues. But to answer your question 1956 was the only year which had a 12 volt starter with teeth to match the older style 146 tooth flywheel. 55's were the last year for 6 volts and 57's went to a different flywheel 172 ?? teeth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyFifty Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 My 6 v has worked fine since day one of install, my original was noisey even on the one occasion I turned the engine over with 6v, so I changed it very shortly after converting. Sounds to me like your getting bad bushings, no way should it be hammering the windings if it was tight. Maybe the case is warped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 I cannot see how it is tearing windings up inside..the tolerances are close that an elongated bushing at the brush end will cause drag...is this what you are experiencing...the thrust washers internally would prevent forward thrust of the armature...are these properly installed? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finmad Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 I don't know what is failing, just what the shop is telling me. The are saying it is over spinning and the inertia is allowing the windings to open up and hit the case. I am not sure about this, I think it is a bussing or thrush washer issue. They don't seem to concerned about the proper bushings or washers and when I offered the shop manual for specs, they blew it off. I will be there today and will expect good answers of there will be hell raised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) deja moo all over again......not downing you in any manner but they could tell you anything as you are not there to observe and inspect the internals.. I find it very hard to believe. The starter under load is limited to the RPM it can turn just by the very torque of the motor against the resistance of the engines compression...IN FREE RUN test..the motor, depending on year for the flathead is free run rated 4000 to 4300 RPM...yes...that is four thousand plus...no way it is going to just disintegrate while spinning under load...I would recommend finding a qualified repair facility Edited September 9, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finmad Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 I understand the low rpm, but the fly wheel multiplies that many times over. it is not a one to one ratio. if the starter stays engaged to the flywheel and the motor revs up it could spin that starter very quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 I understand the low rpm, but the fly wheel multiplies that many times over. it is not a one to one ratio. if the starter stays engaged to the flywheel and the motor revs up it could spin that starter very quickly. Interesting thoughts. I would guess that if the starter stayed engaged to the flywheel and spun up to a high speed that there would be starters blowing up all over the place. But that is not the case as you are the only one currently having starter problems. Is that why yours is failing? As you have a truck I am assuming you have a foot starter with no Bendix gear disengagement mechanism. Are you holding that foot pedal down for long periods after the engine starts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) I may get chastised here but I repeat myself...see post 2 is the tooth count correct on the bendix in relation to the flywheel in use...can you say with 100% certainty that the shop doing your work IS NOT comingling parts? They will engage when co mingled but not so apt to disengage...you have it at a shop...maybe the shop needs to come online and read some of these posts as they are doing the work. Again...it only takes a minute to know if you have the right parts..count the teeth and elimate a bit of the guessing as to what may be..when you do not know what is wrong...it is so easy to prove what is right...in doing that you can often find what is wrong quickly... as your truck has a Plymouth engine, what is the series number on the block..this will state your donor year.. Edited September 9, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBF Posted September 10, 2015 Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 I converted my 36 Plymouth, and 52 1 ton to 12V almost 10 yrs ago if not longer. Haven't had any issues w either starter. I just don't gring on them for long. Neither starter has been touched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted September 10, 2015 Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 I think if it was mine I would try and find a replacement for this starter motor and try that instead of messing with the one you have got. I really don't think it is the 12 volt conversion that is causing the problem. Lot's of guy have done that with no problems. You may just have one that isn't a good fit. These old motors are pretty tough. I bet if you find the right one your problem will go away. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavisco1 Posted September 10, 2015 Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 Hello Finmad, I think I would find another auto-electric shop. The things they are telling you simply make no sense. Ask around for a recommendation from some auto repair shops that have been around a while. You will need to find the Gray Beards that have been around a while. Having another rebuildable core on hand is another good suggestion. Place an ad in the classifieds of this site and start scouring the junk yards. Electric starters are old mature technology that should be very reliable. Run away quickly from the shop you are currently using and cut your losses. It's no longer worth your while to fool with those clowns. Just my two cents, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gshort Posted September 10, 2015 Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 Listen to MBfowler. The starter is hanging up on the flywheel and over spinning before it releases. You ask the question,follow up on the s u suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ194950 Posted September 10, 2015 Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 I agree with above posts about changing shops. !0years+ ago I worked for a equip. rental co (hi-reach,forklifts etc.) I made a change to work in their forklift shop. One of my first projects to repair was a specialty forklift in high demand that they only had one of. One of the problems it had torn up 2-3 ring gears and 20+ starter bendix gears in the 5 years they owned it. The starter was one off for them and had no spare. Machine on rent broke down regularly because of starter problems. I pulled the starter and the bendix gear was torn up again. This co. had their own rebuild shop for starter and more. I knew the foreman of that shop well and demanded him to personally find the starter problem. Turns out there is a starter rebuild book with starter numbers and part #'s used per application. For this motor combo took 10 teeth on the bendix and they had Always replaced the bendix with what Came on it when the forklift was purchased used (11 tooth)!! For 5 years they made the same mistake and Never once looked at the book they had! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joenailer Posted September 11, 2015 Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 after digging through what must be 100 links and leads, it looks like the correct starter for a 9 tooth,12v for a L6 230 is a MDG 6001, Prestolite #3410. pops up on amazon as a Gladiator 3410 at 319.00. Autozone just quoted 219.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joenailer Posted September 11, 2015 Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 By the way, I'm installing in on my B1C with a 218. I have been told its the same. update in a couple of days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joenailer Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 you know what they say, if it seems like too good of a deal... autozone crapped the bed, wasn't even close to the correct starter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finmad Posted September 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Listen to MBfowler. The starter is hanging up on the flywheel and over spinning before it releases. You ask the question,follow up on the s u suggestions. I don't think so, I think it is bad bushings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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