Oil Pan leak

[David Wolf]

I have a 1940 Plymouth Deluxe Sedan and noticed a little puddle of oil, at the front of the engine, while idling in my driveway the other day. So today, I took it to a shop and they removed the pan and replaced the gasket with the one I gave them from Andy Bernbaum Auto Parts. All was well under I drove it home and noticed, once again, another small puddle of oil front the front of the oil pan. The mechanic said you should only use the gasket without anything such as Permatex or Silicone. ANY suggestions, fellas? I'd really appreciate your advice.

 

Thank you,

 

David

[ptwothree]

Timing cover gasket or front crank seal might be leaking.It'a about the only other place in the front of the engine that could leak.

[Don Coatney]

When you installed the new gasket hopefully you did not trim the ends of the end pieces.

 

[David Wolf]

Thank you both for that information! Will pass this along to the mechanic and look at the timing cover area, as well.

 

 

[Reg Evans]

My repair manual shows the long flat gaskets resting on top of the end gaskets which are suppose to be sticking up above the pan gasket between 1/8" to 1/4".

Don, did you cut your pan gasket off at the ends ?

Edited April 9, 2015 by Reg Evans

[Plymouthy Adams]

before making any repairs one should always clean the suspected area good and then place tissues at the places where a leak can occur at every level of the area of the dip..by doing so one can evaluate and determine the cause of the leak..oil has a very nasty habit of dripping and running and the light film left is not enough indication of exact leak...a few drops can appear to be a gusher..the tissue will absorb the oil at the source and identify the failed component/gasket.  If you determine that the leak is the timing chain cover seal..pay close attention to the proper seating method outlined in the book for centering the seal to the crankshaft..

[Don Coatney]

 

When you installed the new gasket hopefully you did not trim the ends of the end pieces.

 

 

 

 

Don, did you cut your pan gasket off at the ends ?

 

I did not. That is why I said hopefully he did not.

[Reg Evans]

I meant gaskets 1 and 3 in the photo I posted.  See how they extend over the top of gasket 4.  Just curious and I know there is more than one way to skin a cat. I just don't want to have to redo this.

[Don Coatney]

I meant gaskets 1 and 3 in the photo I posted.  See how they extend over the top of gasket 4.  Just curious and I know there is more than one way to skin a cat. I just don't want to have to redo this.

I did not cut any gaskets. My new side gasket are as pictured and the end gaskets are also as pictured. They look different than your pictured gaskets.

[Reg Evans]

Mine are different then. The new long side gaskets extend over the top of the fat end gaskets like shown in the photo I posted.

[TodFitch]

Mine are different then. The new long side gaskets extend over the top of the fat end gaskets like shown in the photo I posted.

The side gaskets on mine extend over the end gaskets too.

 

The pan gasket set I installed last week I got from my local O’Reilly Auto Parts. Called one day, picked up the next for $11.99. See no reason to use a specialty supplier from the other side of the country for this. The gasket set I got was new US manufacture and seems to be good quality. Of course they did not have my 82 year old car in their computer but if you come up with the gasket set part number they will have it. http://www.ply33.com/Parts/group10#10-24-01

 

Big issue for me is having the side gaskets stay in place while I got the pan in place. I did it by tying them on with sewing thread through several holes. Enough to hold it in place and my hope is that the very thin thread that remains between the block and the gasket will not be an issue (doesn't seem to leak along the sides so I think that is okay). Don't over tighten the pan bolts or you may create more leak issues than you solve.

[Don Coatney]

I used gasket glue on one side of my oil pan side  gaskets to hold them in place. I then used general purpose grease on the other side and on both sides of the end pieces. Worked for me and I have removed and reinstalled my oil pan a couple of times with no new gasket required. My car still marks its territory when parked for extended periods but I rarely have to add oil.

[Reg Evans]

Don,I am also going to glue the gaskets to the pan and grease the block side in case my oil leak is a rear main and I have to remove the pan again. Crossed fingers.

 

Tod or Don.....is there a torque spec for the pan bolts. The metal around my bolt holes was dented inward almost as much as the thickness of the side gaskets.

I hammered them flat again.

[Don Coatney]

I don't know a torque rating but I use a touchy feely speed wrench and run them up just snug enough to feel the gasket start to compress. Then a month of so later I check them again.

 

[Ulu]

before making any repairs one should always clean the suspected area good and then place tissues at the places where a leak can occur at every level of the area of the dip..by doing so one can evaluate and determine the cause of the leak..oil has a very nasty habit of dripping and running and the light film left is not enough indication of exact leak...a few drops can appear to be a gusher..the tissue will absorb the oil at the source and identify the failed component/gasket.  If you determine that the leak is the timing chain cover seal..pay close attention to the proper seating method outlined in the book for centering the seal to the crankshaft..

 

I always used baby powder, but tissues would be much neater, and you can wipe the oil off with them too.  Best tip I've read lately. 

[TodFitch]

Don,I am also going to glue the gaskets to the pan and grease the block side in case my oil leak is a rear main and I have to remove the pan again. Crossed fingers.

 

Tod or Don.....is there a torque spec for the pan bolts. The metal around my bolt holes was dented inward almost as much as the thickness of the side gaskets.

I hammered them flat again.

 

Sounds like someone tightened them too much at least one time in the past.

 

 

I don't know a torque rating but I use a touchy feely speed wrench and run them up just snug enough to feel the gasket start to compress. Then a month of so later I check them again.

 

I have not seen a torque spec for those. I don't have a speed wrench so I just choke up on a 3/8" drive and get them a bit more than wrist tight. I also skip around with tightening them up and take it in several passes to that everything has time to find its place without distortion or excessive force.

 

On the other hand I am, at best, a shade tree mechanic. So if someone with more experience chimes in they should probably be listened to more than me.

[Ulu]

I used gasket glue on one side of my oil pan side  gaskets to hold them in place. I then used general purpose grease on the other side and on both sides of the end pieces. Worked for me and I have removed and reinstalled my oil pan a couple of times with no new gasket required. My car still marks its territory when parked for extended periods but I rarely have to add oil.

 

Mine never leaked from gaskets or seals but it would leave a single drop from the road draft tube. I have a PCV adapter for my 230 now, but haven't tried it yet. If it stops that drip I'd love it!

[Plymouthy Adams]

the torque on most bolts are specified by their very size, pitch and grade...now mind you that will be the max value...something you would wish not to exceed..on the pan gasket when aligned as you said by the use of a hammer and checked with flat edge one is looking more for even lower value...on the LA V8's the oil pan torque is stated at 15 and these are 5/16 size also....you may be able to draw some conclusions from this...

[Ulu]

Sounds like someone tightened them too much at least one time in the past.

 

Oh, so typical...

 

I have not seen a torque spec for those. I don't have a speed wrench so I just choke up on a 3/8" drive and get them a bit more than wrist tight. I also skip around with tightening them up and take it in several passes to that everything has time to find its place without distortion or excessive force.

 

On the other hand I am, at best, a shade tree mechanic. So if someone with more experience chimes in they should probably be listened to more than me.

 

 

When I assemble tin I usually use a 4" long 1/4-drive ratchet or 1/4-drive speed wrench. It's got enough leverage, but I think the lighter weight of the tool allows for better access and a better feel of the action when torquing the screws.

 

Fixing antique stuff is mostly practice plus some basic common mechanics that applies to almost everything. One of those things is: don't bend the tin!  By what I've seen when disassembling used engines and machines, it's almost always bent.

 

Generally, if the tin distorted permanently when you tightened it, it's over tightened IMO (or mis-placed.) If it flexed a tiny bit then returned flat when removed, the torque is the best you'll get it & it will normally seal fine unless there are surface defects you didn't fix or fill with grease or gasket cement. But the bolts won't stay put without a locking device or thread locking compound/sealant on the threads. Every bolt on my engine had thread adhesive of one kind or another.

 

I ran my 218 without pan rail gaskets at all. I used RTV silicone on the lip and each screw, and it never leaked. I never tightened the pan in 65,000 miles either.

[Reg Evans]

Well, turns out my oil pan leak was actually coming from the flex line ,just above the leak , that runs to the oil gauge. My starter pedal had been rubbing on the line for years and finally wore a hole in it.

OH well......the oil pan was pretty nasty with crud and silicon chunks from a previous install so it's nice and clean now.