Merle Coggins Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 it looks like somebody could convert one pretty easily if they could find the parts around too, they look similar except the button cover and the throttle lever housing The main body of the pump is likely the same but many internal parts would be different. Not really something that would be easy to convert. Quote
timkingsbury Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 Tim, I see what you are saying here but I don't think weight is a huge issue with this truck (1.5 ton truck) Now what isn't particularly easy to find out is how exactly to operate these motors. It's not a standard 6BT, the C175 is an older engine from about the 60-70's that actually relates to the new 6.7's in a twisted way,except It is fully mechanical and uses a PT pump. For instance, detroits like to be pegged and are super picky about oil, that's the kind of info I'm after. Basically, are they good motors when theyre working? Ok - I thought you were still trying to identify it. I saw the c175 and at the end the 6bt. Ok if it is a c175 then it is an 8.3 litre engine. It is substantially bigger and heavier than the truck engines which are already a quite a weight. The c175 was built for a number of years and is in a lot of different applications by the look of it. From off road things that drive, to generators. Here is a link to a good reference starting point. http://www.emacsz.com/catalogue/cummins-diesel-engine.htm I think in the 8.3 litre size,not sure off the top of my head the model number, was in large highway tractors (as in highway trucks) but your talking about something with 12,000 - 20,000 lb front axles. That engine sounds like a great one you might want to get, and put it in an offroad application or generator or something, or get it peddle it and use the proceeds to look for a one of the many Cummins for road use. Again here is a good starting reference point. http://www.emacsz.com/catalogue/cummins-diesel-engine-for-vehicle.htm Tim Quote
41/53dodges Posted February 3, 2015 Author Report Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Tim, I see what you are saying but there are actually 2 completely different C175's Yes, the one you found is an 8.3 liter, but they are only related in name. This unit is about 464 CI or less if I remember correctly, and it was manufactured around the 60-70's and is actually a touch smaller than a 6BT overall. It's actually easier to call it out as a C160 because I don't think they remade that one. That's where alot of the confusion here comes from, makes these information searches a huge pain! it is actually a distant relative of the modern day 6.7 liter used in the newer dodges. This guy here is a C180 (supercharged model of the old C-175, unfortunately not mine), note how little the trailer seems to sag! Versus this behemoth that occupies an entire shipping pallot. This the the 8.3, the later C175. See the difference in size? Edited February 3, 2015 by 41/53dodges Quote
wayfarer Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 ...whew.... plenty of confusion cropping up. Doing a browser search for 'cummins c175' produces the site http://www.cummins-engine.com/6bta5-9-c175.html which says the c175 can be a basic 6BT 5.9L BUT... in the C series engines http://www.cummins-engine.com/6cta8-3-c175.html it shows the 'c175' as the 8.3 monster. It appears that a Cummins cannot be fully identified simply by searching for 'c175'. Given that the subject engine is a road grader it is likely the 8.3. Quote
Merle Coggins Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) The "modern" C-Series engines are quite a bit different than the "old" C-Series engines. This is where the confusion comes in. Cummins reused the "C" designation when they introduced the 8.3L C-Series engine in the early 90's (maybe earlier?) By then the previous C-Series engine was nearly forgotten as it hadn't been in production for 20 years or so. Josh is referring to the early C-series engine, which is nothing like the modern one. The only similarity is that it is an inline 6 cylinder diesel engine manufactured by Cummins. The early C-Series (646CID)shared a design with the J-Series (401cid). Sort of like the modern C-Series (8.3L) is similar to the B-Series. (6.9L) The one he is looking at is 646 Cu.In., which would convert to 7.6L if you like those numbers. Back then they referenced CID rather than Liters. The "175" refers to it's rated HP. I've not been able to find any assembly weights yet, but I'm still looking when I have time. Merle Edited February 3, 2015 by Merle Coggins 1 Quote
ggdad1951 Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 I actually know an engineer at Cummins...want me to ask him anything? He might be able to help you? 1 Quote
41/53dodges Posted February 3, 2015 Author Report Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Id really appreciate it if you could!Merle, I have read that these motors ranged from 401 to 464 (transpose a number there?) But the C series are usually 464. Edited February 3, 2015 by 41/53dodges Quote
timkingsbury Posted February 4, 2015 Report Posted February 4, 2015 The "modern" C-Series engines are quite a bit different than the "old" C-Series engines. This is where the confusion comes in. Cummins reused the "C" designation when they introduced the 8.3L C-Series engine in the early 90's (maybe earlier?) By then the previous C-Series engine was nearly forgotten as it hadn't been in production for 20 years or so. Josh is referring to the early C-series engine, which is nothing like the modern one. The only similarity is that it is an inline 6 cylinder diesel engine manufactured by Cummins. The early C-Series (646CID)shared a design with the J-Series (401cid). Sort of like the modern C-Series (8.3L) is similar to the B-Series. (6.9L) The one he is looking at is 646 Cu.In., which would convert to 7.6L if you like those numbers. Back then they referenced CID rather than Liters. The "175" refers to it's rated HP. I've not been able to find any assembly weights yet, but I'm still looking when I have time. Merle Lol.. you beat me too it and your conversion to litres is good enough for the girls I dance with ! And think 41/53dodges is correct and it is like a c160. They definitely have reused the C number.. but I think the C175 was not reused.. The old one was a C140 C150 and c160 I think. I could be wrong.. Its the same generation as the Cummins triple nickel v8. I seem to remember that that engine is close to 1500 pounds though.. But its out so maybe easy to weigh. Quote
timkingsbury Posted February 4, 2015 Report Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) Tim, I see what you are saying but there are actually 2 completely different C175's Yes, the one you found is an 8.3 liter, but they are only related in name. This unit is about 464 CI or less if I remember correctly, and it was manufactured around the 60-70's and is actually a touch smaller than a 6BT overall. It's actually easier to call it out as a C160 because I don't think they remade that one. That's where alot of the confusion here comes from, makes these information searches a huge pain! it is actually a distant relative of the modern day 6.7 liter used in the newer dodges. This guy here is a C180 (supercharged model of the old C-175, unfortunately not mine), note how little the trailer seems to sag! Versus this behemoth that occupies an entire shipping pallot. This the the 8.3, the later C175. See the difference in size? Umm,.. I could be wrong but that engine in the trailer looks like a Detroit diesel. they use the 4-71 or 6-71 or 8-71 blowers to pressurize the crank case. It doesn't look like a cummins to me. If you can get the part number / serial number off the pump and the serial number off the engine you are looking at I am pretty sure http://p15-d24.com/user/3363-ggdad1951/ buddy can get you the specs on it. Those are usually what they need if I can Cummins Ontario for parts. Tim Edited February 4, 2015 by timkingsbury Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted February 4, 2015 Report Posted February 4, 2015 Love the sound of those screaming loud detroit diesels!! Quote
timkingsbury Posted February 4, 2015 Report Posted February 4, 2015 Love the sound of those screaming loud detroit diesels!! Lol.. well I had an excavator on the farm with a 453 Detroit and it is as I am sure you know the 53 series engines that we screamers.. Not that the 71 series was exactly quiet. But oh boy would that thing scream.. a sold it and bought a liebherr which has a 6 cyl air cooled diesel. Compared to the Detroit, you wouldn't know the Liebherr was even running. But back to the trucks, there are a bunch of guys in my area sticking diesels into old pickups.. the 471 and 453 detroits, the B model 4 cylinder diesels, and a whole bunch of weird and wonderful engines that were for tractors (as in farm tractors), equipment etc.. as well as what they refer to as a "whoosy upgrade" meaning using the 5.9 or newer cummins diesel that was already made for a pickup. I laugh and respond with , I need to take the easy upgrade route because I need my time for more important projects.. aka Flathead Mopars.. I have actually threatened to put one in a buddies mid-1980s ford 3/4 ton pickup. His 6 cylinder finally died after a "bazillion miles of **** and abuse".. Quote
41/53dodges Posted February 4, 2015 Author Report Posted February 4, 2015 Umm,.. I could be wrong but that engine in the trailer looks like a Detroit diesel. they use the 4-71 or 6-71 or 8-71 blowers to pressurize the crank case. It doesn't look like a cummins to me. This is what was called an "Iron lung" cummins, AKA the C180. If you look at a detroit the blower is much larger and more prominent on the right hand side, these guys were just there to feed better than a turbo, since turbos werent quite there yet... This is a larger cummins, but it too is supercharged. You can even see the blower on the bottom front! You guys are right though, there is nothing quite like the Detroit scream! 1 Quote
Merle Coggins Posted February 4, 2015 Report Posted February 4, 2015 Lol.. you beat me too it and your conversion to litres is good enough for the girls I dance with ! And think 41/53dodges is correct and it is like a c160. They definitely have reused the C number.. but I think the C175 was not reused.. The old one was a C140 C150 and c160 I think. I could be wrong.. Its the same generation as the Cummins triple nickel v8. I seem to remember that that engine is close to 1500 pounds though.. But its out so maybe easy to weigh. If you look at the manual pages I posted early in this thread you can see a couple different configurations. The C-Series and J-Series engines were available in multiple configurations and HP ratings, up to 200 HP. Notice the parts book is for C-160, C-175, and C-180. I worked on several triple nickles too. They also had a slightly lower CI version of the 555. It was a 504. Same block and all. I think it was just a smaller bore. Umm,.. I could be wrong but that engine in the trailer looks like a Detroit diesel. they use the 4-71 or 6-71 or 8-71 blowers to pressurize the crank case. It doesn't look like a cummins to me. If you can get the part number / serial number off the pump and the serial number off the engine you are looking at I am pretty sure http://p15-d24.com/user/3363-ggdad1951/ buddy can get you the specs on it. Those are usually what they need if I can Cummins Ontario for parts. Tim Look again. A Detroit wouldn't have an intake manifold and an exhaust manifold. On a Detroit Diesel the blower went directly into the air box and pressurized the liner ports, not the crankcase. That does look like an older C-Series Cummins to me. Probably a C-190 or C-200 if it is blown. The C-175 is a turbo diesel. Lower HP versions were naturally aspirated. At least this is what I've discovered looking through the books I found when this topic came up. Lol.. well I had an excavator on the farm with a 453 Detroit and it is as I am sure you know the 53 series engines that we screamers.. Not that the 71 series was exactly quiet. But oh boy would that thing scream.. a sold it and bought a liebherr which has a 6 cyl air cooled diesel. Compared to the Detroit, you wouldn't know the Liebherr was even running. But back to the trucks, there are a bunch of guys in my area sticking diesels into old pickups.. the 471 and 453 detroits, the B model 4 cylinder diesels, and a whole bunch of weird and wonderful engines that were for tractors (as in farm tractors), equipment etc.. as well as what they refer to as a "whoosy upgrade" meaning using the 5.9 or newer cummins diesel that was already made for a pickup. I laugh and respond with , I need to take the easy upgrade route because I need my time for more important projects.. aka Flathead Mopars.. I have actually threatened to put one in a buddies mid-1980s ford 3/4 ton pickup. His 6 cylinder finally died after a "bazillion miles of **** and abuse".. I used to work with a guy that called them "Convertor Engines" because all they do is convert air and fuel into noise. I think the highest screamer I worked with was the 6V53. I tuned some that had a HFI spec at 3700 RPM. Pretty high for a diesel engine that size. Actually the Cummins 555 and 504 were close seconds. 1 Quote
timkingsbury Posted February 4, 2015 Report Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) If you look at the manual pages I posted early in this thread you can see a couple different configurations. The C-Series and J-Series engines were available in multiple configurations and HP ratings, up to 200 HP. Notice the parts book is for C-160, C-175, and C-180. I worked on several triple nickles too. They also had a slightly lower CI version of the 555. It was a 504. Same block and all. I think it was just a smaller bore. Look again. A Detroit wouldn't have an intake manifold and an exhaust manifold. On a Detroit Diesel the blower went directly into the air box and pressurized the liner ports, not the crankcase. That does look like an older C-Series Cummins to me. Probably a C-190 or C-200 if it is blown. The C-175 is a turbo diesel. Lower HP versions were naturally aspirated. At least this is what I've discovered looking through the books I found when this topic came up. I used to work with a guy that called them "Convertor Engines" because all they do is convert air and fuel into noise. I think the highest screamer I worked with was the 6V53. I tuned some that had a HFI spec at 3700 RPM. Pretty high for a diesel engine that size. Actually the Cummins 555 and 504 were close seconds. very cool.. and your right.. there are extra parts on that engine of the trailer .. although I see the air in the exhaust looks like it dead ends.. that what you get looking at a picture on your sell phone.. lol On the 6v53 yes the chev plow trucks have them for engines.. I forgot about those.. Mind you Grandpa had a 555 and it seemed to leak oil everywhere until it was warmed up and sealed up. then would it ever perform. it was in a big massey 4wd farm tractor. I think it was a 1970 model 1000 that originally had a v8 cat in it. When he got it the cat was a dead "puddy-cat" and he for the triple nickel out of a big truck. I think it was the late 70s or early 80s when Massey Ferguson started putting Cummins into big 4wd tractors and I believe they were coming like 902 cubic inch and came in models from just over 200 hp all the way up to 375 hp.. Lol.. but now I have really took a turn on the road. The supercharger didn't pressurize the crankcase? I always thought since the Detroit was a 2 stroke diesel engine that doesn't use crankcase aspiration so it can not naturally aspirate intake air or draw it in unlike a 4 stroke, lol.. maybe send me a pm.. so the boys can get back to modifying an old dodge truck with a humming Cummins.. Edited February 4, 2015 by timkingsbury Quote
ggdad1951 Posted February 4, 2015 Report Posted February 4, 2015 Id really appreciate it if you could! Merle, I have read that these motors ranged from 401 to 464 (transpose a number there?) But the C series are usually 464. can you send me the questions you have and anything that would help with those questions (pictures, serials, etc?) You should be able to e-mail them to me from my profile. Quote
41/53dodges Posted February 4, 2015 Author Report Posted February 4, 2015 Will do, il try and get back out to the yard tomorrow and get some more pics. Thanks man! Quote
41/53dodges Posted February 6, 2015 Author Report Posted February 6, 2015 I got the information in today, Model: 175C Eng No. 126817 Date 2865 Plus I got a but more of the story about it. The brakes failed on the machine back in about 69' when it got rolled, and somehow the compression release was pulled when the operator was thrown off. The company ripped the cab off and used it a couple more years before scrapping it for being a really strange design. It ran last back in 1990, now the hydraulic pump is siezed but I can turn the engine a couple degrees pretty easily so I would assume it's alright for now Quote
ggdad1951 Posted February 6, 2015 Report Posted February 6, 2015 what do you want to know about it so I can ask my buddy? Quote
41/53dodges Posted February 6, 2015 Author Report Posted February 6, 2015 What does it weigh, what does it wind up to (some people say to run em like detroits...), are there any things I would want to know about it like failures, how exactly to operate it, how good the bottom ends are in these things, and any miscelaneous information. Thanks again! Quote
Merle Coggins Posted February 6, 2015 Report Posted February 6, 2015 Josh, Send me a PM with your email address. I have scanned one of the Operator's Manuals. I'll email it to you. I couldn't find any weights, but it looks like the governed RPM is 2500. Merle Quote
ggdad1951 Posted February 6, 2015 Report Posted February 6, 2015 do you have the engine ESN? With that my buddy thinks he can find some info for you. Quote
41/53dodges Posted February 6, 2015 Author Report Posted February 6, 2015 I couldn't find anything that said ESN, but I believe engine number should be it... Quote
ggdad1951 Posted February 6, 2015 Report Posted February 6, 2015 do you know what fuel pump it has? Bosch? Model number on that. He said this might be too old for their computer system. Serial should have 8 digits Quote
41/53dodges Posted February 6, 2015 Author Report Posted February 6, 2015 Fuel pump is the older PT type, automotive style oddly enough. Those are all the numbers I could scrounge up without removing things... Quote
Dave72dt Posted February 7, 2015 Report Posted February 7, 2015 you might want to ask about parts availabilty 1 Quote
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