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Rebuilding a P10 front end


Cpt.Fred

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PB Blaster for me.

 

I am sure there must be some very good penetrating oils made in Germany. Check with an old time mechanic or ask at your local parts store.

 

Also, you talk about the threads being deformed and looking like grooves. The outer "threads" on those bushings are not like your usual threads and they look like they do in the picture. They will match the threads in the upper control arm. Replacement parts will look the same.

Edited by RobertKB
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well... since i'm working on old rusty stuff (20yrs, more or less) i have been using caramba,

several no-name products i just call MOS2, or WD40.

actually i think they all worked quite well. i have found that with some things it's a question of belief,

when i ask several people they tell me to use this and don't use that,

and then i read a test report in some trade journal and it shows they're more or less all the same.

if i go ask at a shop they'll tell me their product works best, so...

 

anyway, i'm always happy to find new things that work better for a certain task,

so i just mixed caramba, acetone and atf and put it some crusty junk i got lying in the corner.

later on i'll give it a try! :)

 

Robert, you're right of course, i know now, but when i first saw that thread it seemd strange to me.

Like i said, my post here was a bit too hasty...

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I'm going to clean everything very thoroughly and then protect it with owatrol, the same stuff i use for the car's original sun burnt paint

(and pretty much everthing else...). it's a product based on linseed oil, dries like a clear coat and will preserve the original worn look of the parts.

new parts and fresh color look out of place on a car like this, in my opinion...

every time i service the bushings with fresh grease i can can control the metal parts and put fresh owatrol on if necessary.

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A quick shot of penetrant, an impact gun and pins and bushings are out. I don't sit around for an hour waiting for the magic penetrant to work unless the parts are extremely rusty.

I use Ballistol.

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Me neither.

In this case, however, it seems i had to, impact gun had no effect in the first round.

Anyway, it worked in the end and i'm happy.

Ballistol is on my bench, too, but normally i just use it for leather treatment and such,

it's quite expensive around here.

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here are some pics of the differences between the knuckle support bushings.

 

upper outer excentric bushing:

 

20759278lz.jpg

20759279jw.jpg
 

with the introduction of the x-shaped upper control arm in '41 the bushing was changed.

 

lower outer knuckle support bushing:

 

20759280gu.jpg

20759281zd.jpg

20759282to.jpg
 

this looks like it could fit the 1940 lower a-arms...

 

i found out that that most of the time  i can minimize the play

by re-using the old bolts and pivot bars.

the repop bolts have shitty threads and everything is rattling around.

this will be a nice little puzzle...

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i found the  repop stuff,,,,the  lower pins are not  drilled for  cotter pins, they give you a thrust washer instead,,,i didnt trust it  so  i reused the   lower pin on the new bushing,,,  if  i ever  need front  end parts again  ill buy  from  RARE parts,,,,no more repop  stuff,,,,RARE  parts has NOS  and  original moog replacment parts,,,they cost a little more,,,but  worth  it  in  my  opinion

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fstfish66, AndyD here is sending me a nice pair of NOS excentric bushings and some other very useful stuff over from australia,

and i have to talk to some candian gentlemen as well, but thanks for the info on RARE.

I'll definately look them up when i need more parts here. As you said, no more repops for me, when i can avoid it

I'm put in a repop water pump and it started leaking 5000miles later, there's no grease nipples and the fabrication is gruesome..

the situation for harley davidson parts is even worse. some parts just plain don't fit, but cost a h*** lot of money.

 

...rant, rant. ;)

Edited by Cpt.Fred
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I also have found the new replacement suspension pivot shaft parts for our old Mopar cars fit poorly.

I use Genuine NOS if available or clean check and re-install the original parts if not worn excessively.

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I turned a new steel brush into junk yesterday...

 

Amazing how stubborn this mix of road grime and old grease can be.

 

Soaked the parts for some days...

 

20828065qi.jpg

 

Very nice condition preserved under the crust:

 

20828066jg.jpg

20828067ni.jpg

20828068oi.jpg

20828069lt.jpg

 

Now for the lower control arms... i got one of them apart, the other is still resisting.

i simply cannot believe it. but hey, time is working for me, i'm not in any hurry since i don't have all the parts anyway.

 

20828070rf.jpg

 

started to get the bearings out of the hubs. like AndyD told me it shouldn't be a problem to get Timken or SKF replacements

from some hardware dealer around here, but what about the seals...? And what about the seals in the backing plates?

Are those available separately?

 

20828071og.jpg

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Flip the seal that's in your pic over.  There should be a number stamped in it.  If there is not, take it, along with an accurate ,measurement of the spindle where the seal rides, with you to the parts house.  Backing plate seals or gaskets would be a separate item.  They are not considered part of the hub.  If replacing the bearing cone, replace the cup as well.  Those can be driven out of the hub and will have a number on them as well.

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Hi Fred........don't those front end parts look nice in pure, clean steel?........lol.......throw some paint on them while you're waiting for the parts and the car will really love ya'.......re the grease seal, you can take the stub axle with you to the bearing shop and they should be able to mic up the axle O.D. and the seal O.D. to get the correct size but the seal should have a number on it which will work with the shop........regards, andyd

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I think he mentioned earlier he will coat them with something (a product I'm not familiar with) to leave them "natural" looking.

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Yeh, DB, he's got this rust fetish, I'll keep trying to convert him to brightside rather than the darkside.........lol..........their "natural" state I think had a semi gloss black chassis finish when they left the production line.......still he's doing a good job on this and its a credit to him........regards, andyd

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Rust fetish... pffft! :D Who, me? Nicy and cozy here on the dark side, and no chrome far and wide.... noooooo chroooome. hehehehe.

I'll see about the coating, i didn't think they'd be this clean under the dirt and now i'm worried they might rot with just the owatrol on them.

maybe a mix of both is the best.

 

Andy, i got a customs notification today, looks like the box made it around half the planet! Now i have to get it out of their hands quickly...

 

Oh, and i got the bushings out of that last a-arm yesterday. In the end i had to use a little heat, but i think it's ok and the steel pressed lower arms.

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Ok, for all those people who need to replace front wheel bearings on a P10

and need the Timken parts numbers to cross reference or buy new Timkens, here you are:

 

20848189fp.jpg

 

Outer wheel bearing reads "TIMKEN X 09074"

 

20848190xj.jpg

 

Outer wheels bearing race reads "TIMKEN - 09194"

 

20848191pk.jpg

 

Inner wheel bearing reads "TIMKEN 14125 - A"

 

20848192my.jpg

 

Inner wheel bearing race reads "TIMKEN - 14276"

 

20848193mg.jpg

 

Sadly the inner bearing dust seal does not bear any numbers or markings,

so if anyone could chime in and post the reference number for that part, i'd be very happy.

Otherwise i'll have to measure and ask the dealer, as proposed earlier.

 

The seal is totally shot, as you can see,

so i guess i'll have to get the front brake shoes relined due to the grease that entered the drum.

Too bad, they weren't even 10.000km old...

 

20848194ms.jpg

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Here's to you, Andy... :)

I put a thin coat of black on the parts and now i'll cover them with linseed oil so they don't start rusting after all these years..

They will look old afterwards, so we're both happy, hehehe.

 

20867992qa.jpg

20867993si.jpg

 

Speaking of happy, i fetched the package from the customs office this morning... :cool:

 

I was also toying around in Photoshop and build templates of truck shock mounts from a photo and measurements i got from YoungEd. Thanks!

Will glue them to cardboard and mock them up on the frame to get an idea of how long the new shocks will have to be...

 

20867994hx.jpg
 

Edited by Cpt.Fred
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The parts are a lot better than the repops, thanks a lot! The excentrics screw right on and fit well! :)

I will clean everything i have and then mix the best parts to get a working set together. This should do it, i guess.

Maybe i can get some more NOS parts, will have to use phone later and call some people.

I'm also a little confused about how much play the bushings should actually have... i guess i'll just put everything together and tighten things up

and then i'll see for sure. Now i have to figure out how to get the pivot bars back into the arms WITH fresh rubber on them. Pretty tricky... ;)

 

I mailed the Timken #s to my parts guy and we'll see what he can do. Dust seals are a mystery to him, so maybe i give Bernbaum a try.

They're just 15$ i think, so i try them out. Control arm bumpers as well.

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Fred, from memory I used some very pliable rubber hose the correct diameter installed onto the pivots, think it was from a small diameter piece of radiator hose, it only has the be about 1/2" wide, if that, and will center itself onto the pivot bar bushes when they are fully installed.......you could also try a large profiled  "O" ring, say 1/4" thick, 1/2" diameter, that's tight fit on the pivot bar and they would also work...........the rubber seals are just to stop any moisture getting onto the threaded part of the pivot bar, with a liberal coating of grease it shouldn't be an issue anyway..........yeh I've always had an argument with the guy that does the annual registration check on my car regarding the amount of wear allowed in the upper/lower/inner/outer pins and bushes..........the coarse thread is there to allow grease to travel along the thread so the tolerance is always going to be more than that when a setup like the kingpin is used...........but there obviously shouldn't be any visible movement, or very little............now as a parting retort.............repeat after me......."paint is good, I like paint"..........."paint is good, I like paint"...........lol...........regards, mate................andyd      

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