Starter drive/flywheel help [Pic]

[bluebanshee]

Hello,

 

I've done a bunch of reading on here but finally couldn't find what I was looking for.

 

I have a 1957 D100 truck with a 230 that I've swapped a car bell housing into. There isnt' enough engagement (depth) with the starter drive and flywheel teeth to turn over without grinding.

 

If I remember correctly I have a 172 teeth flywheel (new) but matched the same as the old one. I did have the 12v Chrysler corp starter rebuilt so they could have used the wrong pinion. It has 9 teeth and 1 inch diameter.

 

230 Truck motor

230 Truck flywheel w/172 teeth

Starter that came on truck but with new drive

 

Car bell housing

Car clutch bolted to the machined truck flywheel

 

Does anyone know if the car/truck bell housings can be swapped and the starter mesh correctly? From my reading it appears there is a 25mm and a 30mm starter drive. I would have the 25mm unit and the 30mm one should give it enough engagement to work. I will have to see if the rebuild shop still has my old one for measurement (unlikely at this point). I am near my wits end but any help is greatly appreciated.

 

Edited June 19, 2014 by bluebanshee

[Merle Coggins]

I can't help you with your question, but it brings up a question of my own. Why did you swap to a bell housing from a car? Did that make the T5 swap easier? I hope you get it sorted out. That's a nice looking power train. I love the '57 Dodge trucks. Should be a good cruiser.

 

Merle

[Don Coatney]

What engine is the flywheel from? Car? Truck? Year?

 

If you used the car flywheel and it is pre 1955 the tooth count is most likely OK but the problem is the crankshaft flange offset. I had the same issue and pictured is my fix.

 

 

[NiftyFifty]

Ya my question too, I thought the car bell housings didn't mesh up to the crossmember the same? At least my buddies 50 2 door car looks way different. Was the inside step of the flywheel the exact same also? Just curious if the offset might have changed now? Great looking set up by the way!

[bluebanshee]

The car bell is about 3/4 inch short front to back. I had more input shaft spline engagement with it. The starter drive protrudes far enough in to engage the flywheel but the teeth are not long enough/pinion diameter too small.

 

Correct, the crossmember is different. I built an adapter plate for it.

 

The flywheel is from the truck as is the 230. Only thing that changed was the bell housing and the starter drive was replaced but not sure if they put in the exact same.

Edited June 19, 2014 by bluebanshee

[Young Ed]

57 was the first year of the tooth count change between flywheel and starter. I wonder if you got it rebuilt with the 56 and earlier tooth count starter drive?

[bluebanshee]

Any idea what the 57 pinion should have for teeth and diameter?

Edited June 20, 2014 by bluebanshee

[bluebanshee]

Apparently my old starter drive is the same as replacement. Will find out will work. Brakes and drive train are ready to test once this gets sorted out.

[bluebanshee]

Hopefully I am wrong but it appears that only the 146T flywheel and larger 1.25" pinion will work. The larger pinion gear is a different size so it won't even fit on my truck starter. That would give me the 1/8 of engagement that I need since my pinion is 1" diameter.

 

Unfortunately I think I will have to get both parts and pull the motor to get this going.

 

Does this see correct?

[bluebanshee]

146t and the larger pinion (larger shaft starter/older) is the fix.

[John-T-53]

Are you fabricating a new cross member or mounts so your frame can accept the car bellhousing?

 

The T-5 will work with the truck bellhousing too; all you need to do is make a longer pilot bushing with a collar.

 

Also see you have the George Asche duel carb setup...nice.

[bluebanshee]

Are you fabricating a new cross member or mounts so your frame can accept the car bellhousing?

 

The T-5 will work with the truck bellhousing too; all you need to do is make a longer pilot bushing with a collar.

 

Also see you have the George Asche duel carb setup...nice.

 

I did make a new cross member mount.

 

The T-5 won't work with the truck bell if using an adapter. I'd agree if you were drilling the truck one to fit. I chose not to do that.

 

It is George's setup. Helpful folks.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2014 by bluebanshee

[greg g]

I believe the crankshaft flanges on engines that would possibly have had fluid drive units attached were substantially thicker than non fluid drive set ups.  This extra thsickess repositions the flywheel that much further back in the bell housing.  That distance needs to be accounted for when mounting the starter.

[Conroe Powdercoating]

shave it the distance needed like Don has shown

[Young Ed]

I believe the crankshaft flanges on engines that would possibly have had fluid drive units attached were substantially thicker than non fluid drive set ups.  This extra thsickess repositions the flywheel that much further back in the bell housing.  That distance needs to be accounted for when mounting the starter.

 

Interesting. That makes me wonder if the whole starter/flywheel misalignment some have had to correct for is from using a dodge 230 crank that would have normally been fluid drive and if a plymouth 230 is then different??

[bluebanshee]

Mine lines up great and starts good too. Carbs are fairly well tuned until I get it together more and put the HEI dist in.

 

Since I used the same engine and flywheel I did not have any alignment issues front to back/depth wise. The starter is now at say 2:00 instead of the 1:00 position (truck bell).

Edited July 8, 2014 by bluebanshee

[Don Coatney]

I believe the crankshaft flanges on engines that would possibly have had fluid drive units attached were substantially thicker than non fluid drive set ups.  This extra thsickess repositions the flywheel that much further back in the bell housing.  That distance needs to be accounted for when mounting the starter.

That is exactly correct. I used a Desoto fluid drive crankshaft and a P-15 non fluid drive flywheel.