1946 Chevron Blue #2 paint formula?

[Ward Duffield]

Hi group

Time to repaint my firewall before reinstalling the front sheet metal.

I am wondering if anyone has the paint code or the formula for Chevron Blue #2 in PPG DCC Acrylic Urethane.

Either from a trusted data base or scanned from an original car.

I have looked at pictures of Plymouths painted this color on the web, and they are surprisingly variable,

Even cars painted the lighter, Marine Blue are represented as being Chevron Blue.

Any help is appreciated.

 

 

[Dave72dt]

Auto color Library has the Ditzler color chart listing for a '42 Plymouth , Chevron  Blue, 10018 and 10019.  Ditzler is the forerunner of PPG I believe.  One of the problems is the new formulations often don't use the same toners as when these colors were fresh on the market and you can get variations from the original.  Monitors and cameras don't translate colors the same either.  Add into it the natural deterioration and color change from aging and you can get a variety as well so sometimes you have to rely on the expertise if the jobber mixing it for you to get an accurate match.  The cameras jobbers use will usually get you really close but his and your trained eye has to make the final decision.

[Robert Horne]

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/paintdetail.cgi?ppg=10018

PPG code 10018 - blue is listed on this site as,

For Plymouth by Chrysler, 1946 ,,, PPG.

[Ward Duffield]

I know the code; I was wondering if anyone had a can around with the formula

I am changing to this color- nothing to scan or match

 

Thanks

PS I am still searching for a clutch fork boot

 

Ward

[Dave72dt]

Your local paint jobber should be able to mix you up a 1/2 pint of material for you to look at or even a 2 oz touch up bottle for a minimal amount of cash, lees than it would cost for someone to send a sample they might have.

[Ward Duffield]

My PPG Jobber explains that PPG has removed formula info from their computers

He cannot mix anything

I need a sample or I need the original Paint Color Code for the later Chevron Blue.

This crosses to PPG 10319, the first version of Chevron Blue

Was it also Code 203, the same as PPG 10318, the second version?

[Plymouthy Adams]

My PPG Jobber explains that PPG has removed formula info from their computers

He cannot mix anything

I need a sample or I need the original Paint Color Code for the later Chevron Blue.

This crosses to PPG 10319, the first version of Chevron Blue

Was it also Code 203, the same as PPG 10318, the second version?

This sounds very strange to me..if PPG has removed the formula from the computer than how is he going to mix any paint, any time, of any formulation for anyone including the body shop down the street repairing modern cars.  My jobber when mixing paint always prints out the formula onto the peel and stick an label and then the paint is prepped.  When choosing my last color they also mixed for no charge to me a small amount for color testing as we all know paint usually changes tone when dried.  Further on some older vehicles, your jobber has a direct contact number for his distributor (PPG in this case) that he can call for archived formulas.  I have had this done a few times in the past and not so long ago for the last one.  Granted this might not always meet with success but at least they did their best to help.  Yes I know you would like someone here to hopefully have that information filed away..You could get lucky...one would think critical color formulas would be a very prime concern for POC members, have you contacted these guys or even the AACA folks may be of assistance...But in every instance I have been given by the very corporate heads that any old paint cannot be guaranteed a match as per Dave above, paint base formulation has changed...your paint will be close..but they will not ever guarantee the match..to that end, that is why lots of jobbers will not even try to mix paint for the older cars..they cannot force you to buy it I guess and who wants a can of paint sitting by that can only be sold at a loss.  This point I understand completely.

[Dave72dt]

All of PPG's codes have not been removed. I suspect only the lacquer based ones. DAL-10018 and DAL-100319 are the two codes for Chevron Blue used from'41 -48 by Plymouth. The problem is, it was only formulated in a lacquer base. The toners used when creating Chevron Blue are not being recreated today. To mix that formula today would entail mixing current toners to achieve an exact match of each of the toners used to mix that color and then compensate amounts of the mixed toners for the type of modern paint system because that can vary between an acrylic enamel, urethane or base/clear. Even finding someone with some material left over or a chip is no assurance that it's correct anymore. Chips are subject to UV and age deterioration and you can question the mix accuracy of any product still in a can as well as the settling of pigments so what that color looked like in 1946 may not be the same as it is now.

If, IF, someone had a unmolested survivor in Chevron Blue, and it was freshly color sanded and re-rubbed, you'd have a pretty accurate color to scan. We both know, that's extremely unlikely to happen, since that defeats the unmolested survivor status. Restoration Shop from TCP Global claims to be able to match any color. It's possible they have mix cards that would have translated the lacquer to an enamel which then may be able to be updated to current. That code may have never been translated to enamel since lacquer was available for a number of years after enamels became the automobile manufacturer's choice of material and the color was discontinued from factory use.

You're in a tough spot trying to be accurate with your color. Chip matching and a good jobber who can custom mix for you will be your best bet at getting a reasonable facsimile of your color choice. That's as good as it's going to get, unfortunately.

[ol'skool]

Ward D is correct.  I had the same issue trying to get Chevron Blue mixed.  Gave them all the paint codes I could find and not one supplier I talked to could use the code to mix.  Took 3 weeks and I found a paint store and she was able to get the codes and mix me the color.  She had old CD's that had the information on them.  Took her about 10 minutes and she found the color and mixed me up a quart for the firewall and rims.  It's doubtful you will find many paint stores that will mix it based on the codes you are giving them.  Where are you from Ward, PM me if you want and I will forward on you the contact information for the paint supply store along with the reps name and phone number so you can call her.  She is in northern IL, maybe they will ship to you.  

[B-Watson]

All after market Plymouth colours from 1936 and on (except for LosAngeles before 1941 and Windsor before 1946) were available in lacquer or enamel.  Plymouth was one of the earliest makes to switch to enamel paints (Detroit and Evansville in 1936) with some enamels available in 1935.  The only exceptions were some 1941 colours Ditzler formulated to match aged paint which were lacquer only.

 

Ditzler did list Chevron Blue as DAL-10018 (lacquer) and QDE-10018 (enamel).  Chevron #2, introduced shortly after the beginning of the 1946 model year, was available in lacquer (DAL-10319) or enamel (QDE-10319).   

 

Dirtzler's five digit colour code was introduced in 1944, with the company assigning new numbers to the 1942 colours first and working back to 1939.   New colour sheets were issued for 1939-40 models and 1941-42 models in 1944.  The form number in the bottom right corner began with "44" for the 1939-40 sheets and "1-" for the 1941-1942 sheets.  Almost all the 1941-42 sheets were reissued for 1946 as the 1942 colours were carried forward.  These sheets have form numbers begining with "46" and have "1946" added to the sheet title..  

 

Prior to 1944 Ditzler used "IM" (Ditx-Lac Inter-Mix) prefix for lacquer paints and QDE (Quick Dry Enamel) for enamel paints.  For Chevron Blue, the lacquer version was IM-2568 and the enamel QDE-2134.

[B-Watson]

The Ditzler IM chart for the 1942 Plymouth

[Ward Duffield]

Hi All

My car is all stripped and ready for new paint but I cannot get a match to an original Chevron Blue 16" rim I have- the jobber says they need a 3x3" sample.

My car was black; no help there. I tried a match from the PPG chips , but it is no good,  it did not match when applied to the rim.

Does anyone have any leftover paint from a good matching repaint or masking paper, or can you paint a piece of cardboard, etc. and lend it to me or an old piece I can borrow to buff out and scan?

This project needs to get going again before the snow flies. HELP!

Ward NY

Edited August 26, 2014 by Ward Duffield

[BobT-47P15]

Probably won't help with your problem..........but I can't recall..........is this car Chevron Blue?

 

[Ward Duffield]

Nope it's dark blue -there are chip charts on ebay

but all the chips are too small

[greg g]

Auto color library wed site has the original codes if the jobber can mix from them.

[Dave72dt]

Can the jobber match to the wheel?  Probably wants to do a scan. It used to be done by eye.  Do a bit of color sanding and buffing on the wheel, find a chip that looks close and have the jobber adjust the formula to match.  The color of the wheel as it is now is not the color it was back in the 40's.  UV's and time may have changed it a bit.

[greg g]

The site I referenced notes two codes for chevron blue, one for deluxe up to a certain serial number, and one for special deluxe. Might be one was a solid and the other a metallic. The codes are dal10018 dqe, and dal 10019dqe.

[Don Coatney]

If you get a color that is close do you think anyone will ever notice or care if it is not exact? Trying to duplicate 60+ year old paint using the tints available today will be almost impossible. 

[Dave72dt]

Did you contact "ol skool" and get in contact with his vender?  The vender might give you the recipe for that blue or might be willing to give it to your jobber.  What if you get the code and get it mixed and you find it doesn't match your wheel?  You can always paint the wheel(s) to match the car.  they probably need to be freshened up anyway and if you only have 1 Chevron blue wheel, you'll want to paint them all regardless.

[B-Watson]

The site I referenced notes two codes for chevron blue, one for deluxe up to a certain serial number, and one for special deluxe. Might be one was a solid and the other a metallic. The codes are dal10018 dqe, and dal 10019dqe.

 

The pre-war Chevron Blue, DAL-10018-DQE, was used up to serial number 15,157,624 on 1946 Plymouth DeLuxe models and 11,507,849 on 1946 Plymouth Special DeLuxe models.  After those numbers the Chevron Blue #2 was used, DAL-10319-DQE.   Neither were metallic.  Do not know what the difference was between the two.   Chevron #2 was used to the end of P15 production. 

[Frank Elder]

One in Lacquer, one in enamel..........

[Ward Duffield]

Hi All

My car is all stripped and ready for new paint but I cannot get a match to an original Chevron Blue 16" rim I have- the jobber says they need a 3x3" sample.

My car was black; no help there. I tried a match from the PPG chips , but it is no good, although expensive.

Does anyone have any leftover paint from a good matching repaint or masking paper, or can you paint a piece of cardboard, etc. and lend it to me or an old piece I can borrow to buff out and scan?

This project needs to get going again before the snow flies. HELP!

Ward NY

[Don Coatney]

Your answer might be found in this thread. Why a new thread on the same topic? Perhaps a moderator can combine these 2 threads.

 

http://p15-d24.com/topic/36046-1946-chevron-blue-2-paint-formula/

[Purevil]

Paint colors have not changed that much over the years, how ever formulations and color names have. Your best bet is to take the wheel you have that you are trying to match, clean and polish it well to your liking. Then take it to the local mixer of your choose and compare it to the color chips. do the comparison both inside under lights and outside in the sunlight as the same color will look different. You will never get a perfect match but you will get close enough to be happy with it. The biggest thing to watch out for is single stage paint or multi stage paint, a single stage paint will give you the semi gloss look of the 50's.  I just got done painting a 1973 Chevy 1 ton that was orange from the factory. the closest color match for it this was called sunset orange used on a 2006 Saturn. from 2 feet away and the sun just right you can see the difference from the box and the cab... any further and it looks like a direct match.

 

you will have better luck finding the formula in enamel instead of lacquer

 

I know some NAPA stores mix paint and all NAPA stores have a paint Rep that they can call to track down the information.

[Dave72dt]

The problem is that not all colors have been replicated into a formula using current toners.  Chevron Blue 2  may be one of those.  I mix paint using Dupont and Nason lines and I can't get a direct formula match for some of the older colors.  I managed to match up the red used in '51 on trucks.  I can't find a direct match for the green used the same year.  I would have to spend a bunch of time playing with a formula that's close.  Your jobber can do that for you if you want to match the wheel.