48ply1stcar Posted March 13, 2014 Report Posted March 13, 2014 Some time ago while searching the web I found a web of a persons installation of 3 point retractable seat belts in a P-15 4 door. It showed the seat beat mounted on the B-pillar. The web site had pictures of where and how to mount the brackets. Has anyone seen this posting and know where I can find it. Or do you have pictures of how you may have mounted seat belts. I think I remember someone on this site with 3 point seatbelts mounted in the rear seat. Any help please. Quote
builtfercomfort Posted March 13, 2014 Report Posted March 13, 2014 Julianos has some how-to's on their website. They sell the whole seatbelt kit with large washers etc Quote
Solution Tones52 Posted March 13, 2014 Solution Report Posted March 13, 2014 Blueskies has a site dedicated to his 50 Plymouth build. I'll be referring to this when I get to putting in 3 point retractables in my '52. http://www.50plymouth.com/08-uai/uai.html Quote
Andydodge Posted March 13, 2014 Report Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) I mounted retractable seatbelts in my 1940 Dodge yrs ago, the main hassle was making up a thin but thick steel strip with the bolt welded on the back and feeding it down the inside of the B pillar from the pillar light hole at the top of the pillar till it was in the right spot then riveting it to the pillar, then drilled thru the pillar to allow access to the bolt....on the bottom of the pillar I made up a bracket to hold the retracted belt.....and the inner belt piece was attached between the bucket seat and the console.....I'd attach a pic but somethings not working re the pic thing ..........andyd Edited March 13, 2014 by Andydodge Quote
Eneto-55 Posted March 13, 2014 Report Posted March 13, 2014 I saved the adjustable belt system from a 93 Chrylser T & C I scrapped out, and plan to adapt it by fabbing an external cover for the track. The main issue, of course, will be creating the attachment points inside the B pillar, as AnyDodge states above. Quote
Oldguy48 Posted March 13, 2014 Report Posted March 13, 2014 I used a similar approach as AndyDodge, on my P15, for both front and rear seats. I'll try to find pictures of the belt anchors if I can. May take a while. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted March 13, 2014 Report Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) B-post anchors are plate metal that is as wide as you can fit in and abit of length for displacement...drill and weld a lug nut from a chebbie...7/16-20 as is seatbelt hardware...also drill and tap a small locating hole to keep the plate in position once fitted for ease off fitting after the interior is in place..same for the bottom retractors and belt fasteners for the floor..it is all in proper fitting the assembly with the body sheetmetal sandwiched in between....it is nowhere near a hard job or for that matter costly..but does take a few minutes of your time..also good belts can be had from you local wrecker...get them from a car not wrecked and with the doors and windows having been closed to protect them while in the yard...the ability to go here and measure and select color and proper fit for you application gives one ease of mind they are getting something that will work and not have to return via post.. Edited March 13, 2014 by Plymouthy Adams Quote
Tusler 49 New Yorker Posted March 30, 2014 Report Posted March 30, 2014 What happens if you have the belt on and the seat rips loose during a collision because it is not reinforced where it bolts in? Quote
Andydodge Posted March 30, 2014 Report Posted March 30, 2014 Tusler........installing/modifying any car part is always a risk I suppose...........I have absolutely NO qualifications except that I have read, studied, watched and generally made it a habit of noting how the factory does things and then repeating the general engineering principles therein used......but if a Mack truck hits my car then it probably wouldn't make much difference if I was driving the latest Mercedes........as far as the seat and seat belt installation goes they are TWO completely different proceedures and processes and one should/must be separate to the other and not affected by the other...........andyd Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted March 30, 2014 Report Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) Tusler 49 New Yorker, on 30 Mar 2014 - 12:34 AM, said:What happens if you have the belt on and the seat rips loose during a collision because it is not reinforced where it bolts in? therein lies the very problem with any modification you do to these old cars...given that you had zero restraints in the beginning with these cars..any sensible install of restraints is a plus. Restraints built into the seat and if you install them in accordance as the accepted practice of the donor vehicle as you retrofit then you still will have a greater chance of survivability compared again to the fact there was no restraint in the car to begin with. In my application where the seat belt is part of the seat the front anchor from the donor vehicle is fully welded to the floor pan in lieu of spot welds used by the factory and I am using original retaining hardware. (load tested by the factory) The rear brackets are however another story...as the constructed rear platform is bolted in using some 12 bolts per seat and about twice the displacement area on the reinforcement plate over stock.. these bolts go through the floor metal and through the cross support that ties the rockers together, pulling out of this would be extremely difficult. So as Andy says above, your ability to fabricate and attention to the principles of displacement as you sandwich the body metal at the mounting areas is paramount to your own safety should you ever have to rely on them. Just do not connect to the frame itself, if the body separates from the frame you will want to stay confined within the body shell and not be pulled through the metal and remain with the frame. 99.9% is common sense here. Edited March 30, 2014 by Plymouthy Adams Quote
TodFitch Posted March 30, 2014 Report Posted March 30, 2014 I've seen the comment about not connecting the belts to the frame in case the body separates from the frame. At least on my car, given the number, size and spacing of the bolts holding the body to the frame it seems to me that any accident where the body and frame separates would not be survivable anyway. So I am curious: Is this worry based on evidence from real world accidents? Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 most cars that are running three point harnesses are uni-body as it is...so technically for that concern it may be moot...however, in situation like trucks and some vans where there is still a full independent frame...then you will never see a belt anchored to the frame..in any accident you hope that it not one that the body is ripped from the chassis..and as you said if such..would you survive as it is..probably not...but many of these old cars are running around on questionable body to frame ears/mounts...and well could shift and twist a bit even if it never fully left the chassis...it is for situations like this you err on the side of common sense Quote
derek_m Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 Anyone install the 3 point/shoulder belt in a business coupe?? Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 Anyone install the 3 point/shoulder belt in a business coupe?? yes Quote
jwaterman1177 Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 In regards to the mounting point concerns, one source of information on reinforcing the mounting locations would be the rule book for your countries Motorsport Governing Body. In Australia CAMS has very good information on mounting seats and seatbelts in racing applications so as to not have these break under an accident conditions. The basic principle is to spread the loading over as big an area as possible. I know when I built my track day car many years ago, the harness mounting points had to be mounted on to a set size & thickness steel plate so as to distribute the load correctly. My bolt in cage in the same car used the same principle for the mounting points. Another good resource is the ADR's and VSB (Vehicle Standards Bulletins) if you are in Australia. These can be written in a very engineering kind of way as they are aimed at car manufacturers but they can give some helpful info too. James Quote
derek_m Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 ^^thanks James. I understand when mounting belts you need to meet certain angles and have the weight distributed at the mount points. I guess my question is more of the shoulder belt mount in the business coupe since there isn't much of a pillar. Is bracing needimg to be welded in for an attachment point? Quote
DJ194950 Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 Suggest you check out-- julianos.com. In the seat belt portion of the site they document install of 3 point seatbelts they sell on 16 differant vechicles in the -how to section. not any mopars but- the idea is the same. I have put their products in my 50 4 dr. and 50 suburban. Julianos were among the first to make their own aftermarket seat belts and all are certified materials and sewing to Fed. Spec. Many cheaper ONES ARE NOT! Not that hard to do. Doug Quote
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