mrwrstory Posted November 30, 2014 Author Report Posted November 30, 2014 This next video was successful but,.....the assembly wasn't! Got this far to discover that between core shift and head milling that the manifold bolts will not install. The jury is still out on the fix 'tho any options I can think of at the moment are not very palatable Quote
fstfish66 Posted November 30, 2014 Report Posted November 30, 2014 I believe the dip stick on the side is characteristic of the 241/270. If you haven't talked to Bob Walker, I encourage you to do so. He is very gracious and could certainly tell you what you need to know. On another note,......just last evening I finally copied/printed the HEI diagram and notes you generously provided. The completion/assembly of the ignition system is in the near future. I do also have help from a local guy who will mentor me through the ballast resistor and coil choices. with the hei conversion you wont be using a ballast,,,and will need an hei coil,,, Quote
wayfarer Posted November 30, 2014 Report Posted November 30, 2014 (edited) This next video was successful but,.....the assembly wasn't! Got this far to discover that between core shift and head milling that the manifold bolts will not install. The jury is still out on the fix 'tho any options I can think of at the moment are not very palatable I'll assume that the 'problem' is of a vertical nature and not fore-aft...How much difference is there? Half a bolt hole? more? Thick intake gaskets are usually the best choice and can be made from various industrial gasketing materials. Try the Garlock website for product. Edited November 30, 2014 by wayfarer Quote
mrwrstory Posted November 30, 2014 Author Report Posted November 30, 2014 I think I'm good! Assuming the machine work done by Offenhauser is good, the core shift appears to be mostly an appearance issue, i.e. the bolt holes in the bosses are consistently "off",.....off center. The ports are off center about the same. I noticed that when I port matched the heads and manifold to the intake gaskets. Everything matches up pretty well. However,.....the heads have been milled (I'll find out how much tomorrow) and the gaskets are pretty thick. I believe this is the cause of the miss alignment of the bolt holes,....and it's not that much. Just now, I installed the intake without gaskets and the bolts engage the threads,....just. So, I'm thinkin,...... thinner intake gaskets and enlarging the bolt holes by .030" and I should be good to go. I'm quite relieved because I've put a lot of soul into this build and was not ready for a major hiccup. I also told a buncha folks I was going to fire it up in two weeks 2 Quote
Dave72dt Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 You'll need to mill the manifold or your port matching will have gone for naught. Milling the heads has brought the intake ports closer together so to get them lined back up correctly, you need to narrow the manifold. The thin gasket may get the manifold mounted but it won't compress much either. If you know someone with a mechanic's scope camera, you may be able to guide it down the intake runners and check how well they match. If you can just get them the bolts to start, I suspect you'll find the upper edge of the head protruding past the intake. 2 Quote
mrwrstory Posted December 1, 2014 Author Report Posted December 1, 2014 10-4 Dave! I arrived at the same conclusion which becomes work I had not planned. Going into the build some years ago I finessed the manifold shaving because I figgered it was minimal and I am always busted for being too anal. So,...here I am Yesterday I spent waaaay too much time (unsuccessfully) trying to calculate the proportion of the manifold shave. Complicated by the fact that the manifold surface is not 45 or 90 degrees to anything. I have modeled the issue with tracing paper overlays and believe the amount of shave to be about half of the amount of the head mill. So, if I am correct and if the amount of mill is less than .060, I will probably go with the thinner gasket and .030 over bore of the bolt holes,....figuring the port mismatch will be minimal. Status report to follow,....in time Quote
wayfarer Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 You'll need to mill the manifold or your port matching will have gone for naught. Milling the heads has brought the intake ports closer together so to get them lined back up correctly, you need to narrow the manifold. The thin gasket may get the manifold mounted but it won't compress much either. If you know someone with a mechanic's scope camera, you may be able to guide it down the intake runners and check how well they match. If you can just get them the bolts to start, I suspect you'll find the upper edge of the head protruding past the intake. ...milling the face of an intake manifold then means that the heads and intake will never work well if used with other non-milled counterparts, as is the case now. It has always been a better choice to cut both sides of the head so that all of the modifications are contained. Quote
DJ194950 Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 Bill it seems that you are a real do it yourself type, but in this case how about asking the shop that milled the heads? I'm sure this is nothing new to them about correcting the intake manifold fit to the now lowered heads. Probably involves more machine work on the intake to correct angles, etc. Assuming your not the machinist also! DJ Quote
wayfarer Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 Bill, exactly how much was cut from the heads? If the combustion chamber side of the heads were cut more than 0.010" then the proper procedure at any shop would then be to also cut the intake side to compensate. Yes, some of the EarlyHemi heads are a PITA to cut on the intake rail, but still necessary. Quote
mrwrstory Posted December 2, 2014 Author Report Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Thanks guys for all the input and concern. I think I'm good! I visited Bob McKray yesterday (a name Gary may recognize). He is a recognized Hemi and flat head guru who did the machining back in 2001. A better term for what was done is "resurface" the heads. That implies less of a cut than "milling" and Bob indicated it would have been more like .005" to .007" max. I still can't figure the amount of cut for a perfect match. I'm guessing something less than .005",..... in the worst case. Isn't that something like pick'n fly "stuff" outta the pepper? The clearance holes for the 3/8 bolts should accommodate that if everything else is to spec, right? Further,.........the gasket I used for port matching turns out to be a good .010" thicker then a "stocker". And, I have another set (steel), which is thinner than stock. I may open up the bolt holes by .010" just to be sure but as I said,...I think I'm good! On the subject of "core shift", assuming Offenhauser machining was good, the offset becomes cosmetic and if I can resist pointing it out, no one will notice. Edited December 2, 2014 by mrwrstory Quote
wayfarer Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 ...agreed, no sense fussing with more machining if the original surfacing was only 0.005 or so. Trouble is (or could be), was that the only time a cut was made? Don't make yourself crazy. If you can elongate the manifold bolt holes and get a bolt started then that should be all you need to do unless you are shooting for an EMS slot..... Quote
DJ194950 Posted December 3, 2014 Report Posted December 3, 2014 How about using some of that valve clearance checking clay on the head in several places and both sides and measure to clay depth top to bottom after putting manifold on as best you can and maybe easy downward pressure, remove manifold and measure the thickness top vs. bottom?? Possibly show the port alignment?? I guess a wipe of oil on the manifold would be required to keep the manifold from sticking to the clay?? Just another thought? DJ Quote
mrwrstory Posted December 8, 2014 Author Report Posted December 8, 2014 So here we are! All is well ! Port matched the stock gaskets to the previous set, cleaned the bolt holes to .010" over, and dropped the bolts in place. Snugged all the nuts and bolts I could reach. Bought a battery and finished wiring and plumbing for "start-up". Rotated the crank one rev via the starter. Today/tomorrow is building the plug wire harness and mounting the temporary fuel supply. Looks like I'm good for the Start-up Party on Sat. - - 1 Quote
Young Ed Posted December 8, 2014 Report Posted December 8, 2014 So here we are! All is well ! Port matched the stock gaskets to the previous set, cleaned the bolt holes to .010" over, and dropped the bolts in place. Snugged all the nuts and bolts I could reach. Bought a battery and finished wiring and plumbing for "start-up". Rotated the crank one rev via the starter. Today/tomorrow is building the plug wire harness and mounting the temporary fuel supply. Looks like I'm good for the Start-up Party on Sat. Will there be live streaming of this event????? Quote
Dave72dt Posted December 8, 2014 Report Posted December 8, 2014 I'm afraid I wouldn't have much luck waiting until Sat. to fire it up if it was ready to try before that. 4or 5 seconds, maybe a minute at the most is about all. 2 Quote
fstfish66 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Posted December 9, 2014 So here we are! All is well ! Port matched the stock gaskets to the previous set, cleaned the bolt holes to .010" over, and dropped the bolts in place. Snugged all the nuts and bolts I could reach. Bought a battery and finished wiring and plumbing for "start-up". Rotated the crank one rev via the starter. Today/tomorrow is building the plug wire harness and mounting the temporary fuel supply. Looks like I'm good for the Start-up Party on Sat. - - congrats,,,can u say varooom.,,,,,,ill assume your going to use a gm tranny?? starter appears to be on the wrong side for a 727/904/518 Quote
mrwrstory Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) I'm afraid I wouldn't have much luck waiting until Sat. to fire it up if it was ready to try before that. 4or 5 seconds, maybe a minute at the most is about all. Yeah, having trouble sleeping,....like a kid before Christmas,.....come to think of it, I am a kid and Christmas is but 2 weeks away However, I promised a "Start-up" party for Sat. morning with no cheating. If something does not go well, well,...... "stuff" happens and it'll make for lotsa laughs. Won't be the first time for me or many of the others in attendance. It's is sorta like taking your close off in front of a bunch of folks 'tho congrats,,,can u say varooom.,,,,,,ill assume your going to use a gm tranny?? starter appears to be on the wrong side for a 727/904/518 Yes, it's bolting up to the GM 5 spd that's already in the roadster. Hopefully the clutch, pressure plate and all other hardware that is now in place will work w/o major modification. Edited December 9, 2014 by mrwrstory Quote
40plyrod Posted December 12, 2014 Report Posted December 12, 2014 Yeah, having trouble sleeping,....like a kid before Christmas,.....come to think of it, I am a kid and Christmas is but 2 weeks away However, I promised a "Start-up" party for Sat. morning with no cheating. If something does not go well, well,...... "stuff" happens and it'll make for lotsa laughs. Won't be the first time for me or many of the others in attendance. It's is sorta like taking your close off in front of a bunch of folks 'tho So we're all expecting the video Saturday night-Sunday morning at the latest ok....the start up video not the taking your cloths off video. Good luck on start up. Can't wait. Quote
mrwrstory Posted December 12, 2014 Author Report Posted December 12, 2014 So we're all expecting the video Saturday night-Sunday morning at the latest ok....the start up video not the taking your cloths off video. Good luck on start up. Can't wait. No promises on a Sat./Sun. video. Whatever the outcome, I will be emotionally drained. And, getting a video on line is more of a challenge to me than building an engine and it takes me longer. I will fess-up, what ever the outcome. Quote
mrwrstory Posted December 13, 2014 Author Report Posted December 13, 2014 Here 'tis ready to fire in the am. Thankfully found a bad electronic module this afternoon. I'm stoked and a little nervous! Quote
DJ194950 Posted December 13, 2014 Report Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) looking good! Best of luck! DJ Edited December 13, 2014 by DJ194950 Quote
Don Coatney Posted December 13, 2014 Report Posted December 13, 2014 I awoke this morning and heard a rumble coming from the west. Checked the weather channel but no storms in my area. Could it be? 2 Quote
mrwrstory Posted December 13, 2014 Author Report Posted December 13, 2014 Could be! Film at 7:00 1 Quote
mrwrstory Posted December 13, 2014 Author Report Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) "The following video is for evidentiary purposes only" I made a mistake,.....thought I was wrong but,.....I was right. No fire on first attempt. Committee observation was timing was off by 180 degrees (the mistake). Reset dist. and no fire and no backfires,......hmmmm????? Checked TDC and timing again and decided original setting was correct. Big audience! Dumped 1/4 cup of fuel in the carb and vroom!!!! It's alive! A more comprehensive video of the event via multiple cameras will be available ,..........in time. Edited December 13, 2014 by mrwrstory Quote
Don Coatney Posted December 13, 2014 Report Posted December 13, 2014 Why did the bantering stop once it ran? Was everyone in AWE? Quote
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