50 coupe Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 OK, I found an old junkyard that has what appears to be 4 1956-57 Poly head motors. One, I think is an early version built on the Hemi block. They told me I can get one for a couple hundred and they will pull it from the car. I would love to have one or two for a future project, I just love the old iron. I realize they would require total rebuild and parts ain't cheap or plentiful, but more interested to hear What kind of experiences or luck you guys have had taking chances with an old motor that has been sitting out in the open, uncovered for probably at least a couple of decades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) My thoughts are this..while they are very nice engines..the parts availability is slim and expensive when located...pretty much like some of the early hemi engines. If you want V8 power and looking to upgrade step forward to a generation that has full support in parts including stepping even bolder beyond the fringe and installing EFI controlled engines and computer shifted transmissions. Why sell yourself short unless it is purely a nostalgia thing you seek..and keep in mind that find parts for some of the poly engines related to anything performance is slim and even farther between. Odds are you will find a dual quad manifold before locating a 4 bbl...the few aluminum models available are so few that if found will cost you a very handsome amount. However..I will say this..having driven a 318 poly with 4 bbl and nice aftermarket cam and dual point dist. long many years ago and attached to a sure trac of proper ratio for the lift and duration of the cam......they are a fun beast and will amaze most folks at their performance..economically today...not your best dollar spent...HOWEVER..there is a renewed interest in the block and parts are being developed as I understand..but are they going to be cheap and plentiful..I would not hold my breath.. Edited November 7, 2013 by Plymouthy Adams 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendo0601 Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 What size polys are these? I know in 1957 Dodge and DeSoto both used a poly version of the 325...parts are pretty hard to come by to say the least. There were several cubic inch polys used throughout the years, all of them are pretty cool if you ask me, but being a former 325 Poly owner I can tell you how ridiculous it is trying to find parts for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50 coupe Posted November 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Yeah, I understand the expense and parts issues, more curious what the chances of having a 'usable' block, heads and crank assembly after sitting out in the open for all that time vs one that has been sitting in a barn or shed. Any experiences to relay? I know it is a crap shoot either way when you can't see/hear a motor run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendo0601 Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 I suppose it all depends on if they have been sitting out in the open with no hood/intake/carb/air cleaner etc. No hood or carb or air cleaner you will probably have a TON of rust and/or pitting in the cylinder walls, combustion chambers, et al. If the hood has been shut and the air cleaner still on it you have a chance of saving one with little headache. The good thing about these poly engines is the cylinder wall thickness is MASSIVE and you can overbore them like crazy. I know the Poly 318 can be safely bored .090 or more without destroying the integrity of the casting. If you REALLLLLLLLYYYYY want an old poly engine I would go through and find the one that looks the best as it sits. Maybe ask them if you can pull the intake manifold off of it so you can see what you are up against down in the combustion chambers. I hate to say it isnt worth it, but you could probably do some hunting and find a good running early poly that a hot rodder yanked out in favor of something with a little more grunt. I am sure that with some super in-depth research and digging through countless catalogues you can find internal parts that will interchange and work inside of whichever engine you choose. Or you could just snag one of them, yank the cylinder heads and have a pretty cool 8-flower planter for the yard...LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martybose Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 If you really decide to pursue this, there are some guys on the MML (Mopar Mailing List) that are pursuing an effort to get some modern four barrel manifolds cast up for the Poly's. Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50 coupe Posted November 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 A decent running stock poly is all I would be shooting for. The one that really catches my fancy I believe is built on the old hemi block. It has the separate lifter valley cover under the intake. The carb is on it but like the others, have been hoodless for 20 plus years I guess. It is sitting in what's left of a 56 coronet. So it should be a 270 or 315 i think. The block itself isn't too rusty, nor are the valve covers so it may not be in too bad of shape. Hopefully with that lil' 2bbl sitting on it not too much snow and water got into it but over 20 plus years, who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hoffmeyer Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 50 Coupe, I don't know what the numbers are, but the 315 would be prefferable to the 270, primarily for the significantly larger bearing sizes with the 315. Paul H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Yeah, I understand the expense and parts issues, more curious what the chances of having a 'usable' block, heads and crank assembly after sitting out in the open for all that time vs one that has been sitting in a barn or shed. Any experiences to relay? I know it is a crap shoot either way when you can't see/hear a motor run. If you have to do a total rebuild,you have to do a total rebuild,and it makes no real difference financially if the engine has been sitting in the open for years or not. IF necessary you can bust the pistions to pull the crank and rods,and then just bore the cylinders out for oversize pistons. A rebore is a rebore. On the slim chance they are too deeply pitted to clean up with a overbore,you can always overbore any individual cyldinder and fit a sleeve of the correct size. Same with the crank. Turn it to clean it up,and if it is scored you can always have a crank shop or REALLY competent automotive machine shop reweld it and and then weld up the jourals to oversize and then polish them back down to standard. It really ain't that big a deal. IF you ever have to do this,MY recommendation is to use a shop like Power Engineering out in Denver. Rebuilding cranks and cams is about 95 percent of what they do,and they even rebuild cams and crankshafts up to 32 feet long. I know for a fact they do good work because I used to work there as a machinist in the mid-70's. http://www.manta.com/c/mmc79b6/power-engineering-co With Power Engineering you have to furnish your own cams and cranks to be rebuilt,though. They don't save and swap cores. Even broken ones are ok with them,but expect to pay more. Another place I know does good work is Delta Cams in Washington state. I have Delta cams in 2 of my current engines. One a 640 Ford tractor,and the other a 58 Rambler wagon. Make sure you buy new lifters from them while you are at it. Yes,you can save core charges by sending them your old cam and lifter,or you can just send yours in to be ground to your specifications. BTW,you do know hemi heads can be bolted onto the Poly blocks,right? All you have to change are the pistons,IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50 coupe Posted November 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 If you have to do a total rebuild............................BTW,you do know hemi heads can be bolted onto the Poly blocks,right? All you have to change are the pistons,IIRC. Good points Knuck' Yeah, the 56' 270 looks to be one that was done on the old Hemi block. It has the intake that needs the separate valley pan cover and engine number stamp on the block in front of the pass. side head. Unfortunately I can't see the numbers at this time so I am guessing it is a 270. The later Poly's, from what I understand, are built on the first 'A' blocks and have some parts interchangeability with the later LA small blocks. One of the good things about living in central Indiana, lots of hi-po machine shops near by. Probably easier/cheaper to rebuild the A block version but I am leaning toward the Hemi-based Poly. Maybe I need one of each......? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruffy49 Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Haing owned a 1958 D300 with a 315, it too has the lifter cover and the "spider" looking 2bbl intake. Literally paid $5 for the truck, added the hot battery out of my 77 F100, and fired it up. Had been sitting on the Gulf Coast for years, came out of Georgia in the 70s. Neighbor had taken the time to keep the engine lubricated and the clutch from sticking to the flywheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Ollian Posted November 9, 2013 Report Share Posted November 9, 2013 If you really want a poly you might consider using a later 318A after 62, they have many parts compatible to the later 318LA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfarer Posted November 9, 2013 Report Share Posted November 9, 2013 If it is a 56 Dodge then the engine should be a 315, if it is a 56 Plymouth then it should be a 270. However, the ID/use codes, or, the actual casting numbers will be the final answer. Keep in mind that these engines (in this engine family) were easy to swap around so you could have something else. Carefully inspect the sides of the block for cracks; these blocks are subject to freeze damage. With the proper pile-o-parts these are very respectable performers. Everything needed for a rebuild is readily available, however, you will spend more on parts than for an A series engine simply due to the volume issue. I suggest you shop around when you start collecting the bits and pieces. Call if you need help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 One of the good things about living in central Indiana, lots of hi-po machine shops near by. Probably easier/cheaper to rebuild the A block version but I am leaning toward the Hemi-based Poly. Maybe I need one of each......? Doesn't everybody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50 coupe Posted November 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 If it is a 56 Dodge then the engine should be a 315, if it is a 56 Plymouth then it should be a 270. However, the ID/use codes, or, the actual casting numbers will be the final answer. Keep in mind that these engines (in this engine family) were easy to swap around so you could have something else. Carefully inspect the sides of the block for cracks; these blocks are subject to freeze damage. With the proper pile-o-parts these are very respectable performers. Everything needed for a rebuild is readily available, however, you will spend more on parts than for an A series engine simply due to the volume issue. I suggest you shop around when you start collecting the bits and pieces. Call if you need help. Thanks for the info, it would be great if it were a 315. You did mention my concern about the cracked blocks. This motor has been sitting out side, uncovered for years or even a couple of decades. Lots of winters with below freezing and below 0 temps. The water pump is gone from this motor but the intake, carb and exhaust is still on it. Maybe there is still antifreeze in the block. I will make it clear to the junk guys that if thye pull the motor, I need to inspect for cracks before I buy. If I don't see any with my eyes, guess I will be taking a risk still. Kinda why I am hesitant about buying a motor sitting outside for all this time, esp. during the winters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) Maybe I'm wrong,but I don't see any danger of a open block freezing and cracking because unlike a sealed unit,there is room for the water to expand when it freezes,and it always takes the path of least resistance. Edited November 12, 2013 by knuckleharley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martybose Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Not to mention that if it has been open for years, anything in the cooling system probably evaporated a long time ago. I would have been more worried if everything was hooked up and sealed! Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50 coupe Posted November 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Not to mention that if it has been open for years, anything in the cooling system probably evaporated a long time ago. I would have been more worried if everything was hooked up and sealed! Marty OK, I'll buy that. I guess it would be worth the risk for a couple hundred bucks. I know speed equip. for this things is scarce and pricey but I would be fine with stock. If I decide to build something fast, there are lots of other avenues to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50desotocoupe Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Did you by chance check ebay? There is a guy from the HAMB that is selling an engine/trans. I am not sure if it would fit your application, but work looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martybose Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 OK, I'll buy that. I guess it would be worth the risk for a couple hundred bucks. I know speed equip. for this things is scarce and pricey but I would be fine with stock. If I decide to build something fast, there are lots of other avenues to take. I think you'll be fine. My 230 was in the same condition and had been in a car that was a couple of thousand feet above the snow line for about 30 years, and was in great shape when we tore it down. Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfarer Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 OK, I'll buy that. I guess it would be worth the risk for a couple hundred bucks. I know speed equip. for this things is scarce and pricey but I would be fine with stock. If I decide to build something fast, there are lots of other avenues to take. You might be surprised what 10:1 c/r and a lumpy cam can do for the Dodges... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50 coupe Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 You might be surprised what 10:1 c/r and a lumpy cam can do for the Dodges... I think I read on AllPar that early hemi intakes will fit the Poly-on-Hemi motors 'if the deck height is the same'. Any experience with this? I figure finding early hemi intakes would be a lot easier than finding early Poly performance intakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50 coupe Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 I think you'll be fine. My 230 was in the same condition and had been in a car that was a couple of thousand feet above the snow line for about 30 years, and was in great shape when we tore it down. Marty Good to know. Thanks Marty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50 coupe Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Did you by chance check ebay? There is a guy from the HAMB that is selling an engine/trans. I am not sure if it would fit your application, but work looking. Thanks, I'll check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blucarsdn Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 I Know that thinking back to the so called "good ole days" can be fun but when it comes to building a good reliable engine/power-train for a vehicle, there is no substitute for modern engineering.. I recently picked up a very nice '73 Plymouth Duster, the previous owner was in the process of restoring the car, he got it about 90% done when he ran out of money... The car appeared to run well so he spent his money on looks. paint, upholstery, etc.. He did rebuild all of the suspension, leaving the powertrain until last.. The engine leaks oil, as does the trans.. Doing some "home work" on 318 engines, the guys in the know told me to look for a late model Dodge 318 Magnum V8... Dodge built the 318's from 1963-2003,it was their standard small block engine as used in everything from cop cars to vans... The Magnums evolved in the early '90's.. Do some research on the 318 Magnums and you will find out they are WOW!! engines. I just picked up a wrecked '98Dodge Ram with a 318 Magnum.. $300. for the whole truck less the 5 speed trans.. If I have to repower the Duster I'll guarantee you that it will be with the Magnum 318, not a worn out, poorly engineered '73 318....Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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