3-Speed Transmission Rebuild

[Kai-by-Vecona]

Hi Everybody,

 

I have a 1942 Dodge D22 Custom Coupe with Fluid Drive and 3 Speed Transmission.

 

Everytime, I will shift from neutral into first gear or reverse the transmission sounds that the synchronizing sleeves wont work anymore. It's only in these gears. Second and third are fine.

 

That's why I want to rebuild the transmission. Hast anybody done this before and know where to find parts? Are the synchronizer sleeves to replace or could they be adjusted? Any hlep would be great.

 

Thanks a lot

 

Kai

[Young Ed]

I think you will find that there are no syncros for those gears. You should really only be going into those gears from a stop. If you still get grinding at a stop you need to make adjustments.

[Don Coatney]

At a stop in neutral with the clutch pedal at the floor try shifting initially into second and then into first and or reverse. Should be no gringing when you do it this way. What this does is stop the input shaft from spinning allowing a smooth transition into first and or reverse.

[P15-D24]

At a stop in neutral with the clutch pedal at the floor try shifting initially into second and then into first and or reverse. Should be no gringing when you do it this way. What this does is stop the input shaft from spinning allowing a smooth transition into first and or reverse.

Spot on...

[greg g]

Your clutch might be dragging a bit, which keeps the input shaft turning while in neutral.  Shifting into second, a sychro equipped gear, stops the input from spinning.  If you find that shifting into second helps your problem, I would try slightly shortening the clutch to throwout fork rod to assure the throwout fully releases the from the fingers on the pressure plate. 

[Kai-by-Vecona]

Hello Everybody,

 

thanks for your help. The grinding is when the car stops, no matter if the engine is running slow or faster. I check at first if grinding stops when I shift in second gear first.  If it won't be better I'll have a look at the clutch. This is a good idea.

[Bmartin]

Please post up the results.  I've got similar issues.  Grinds into third when cold.  Grinds into 1st when hot unless I'm still moving forward just a bit. 

Edited October 16, 2013 by Bmartin

[Kai-by-Vecona]

Here we go again.

 

I tried and the result is, that it doesn't help shifting in second or third gear before first or reverse. I also stepped a little bit on the gas and also at higher rpm second and third works fine. So it doesn't depend on the engine speed. It's also when the engine is turning very slow.

 

I have an old Motor's Auto repair manual and there is a picture of the transmission showing a front and rear synchronizer sleeve, but I'm not sure if these sleeves are only for the upper gears or also for the first and reverse.

 

It will be a long and cold winter. Perhaps I open the transmission and have a look what's inside ;-)

Thanks a lot

 

Kai

[Niel Hoback]

   There are NO synchronizers  for first or reverse.  You CANNOT shift to first or reverse while the car is moving.  The gears will clash and leave small pieces of metal in the sump.  Synchronizers are only on second and third gears. You can shift to second or third gear while the car is moving, BUT NOT TO FIRST OR REVERSE.

[Don Coatney]

Was the car in motion when you tried shifting into second before shifting into first? If so the procedure I explained will not work. The car must be at a standstill. The procedure I posted above has worked for me on every old car I have tried it on including other brands.

[Kai-by-Vecona]

Hello Niel hello Don,

 

no, I never tried shifting when the car is in motion. The grinding is when the car stands still, just engine is running. When it's cold and it turns a little bit faster e. g. with choke it's the same as when it's hot with about 450 RPM.

What about the idea, that the clutch does not work properly? Is that possible? Perhaps I should check adjustment...

[Don Coatney]

How much "free" play do you have in the clutch pedal? How far down do you have to push it before you feel resistance?

[Niel Hoback]

  Sounds like the clutch is not fully disengaging.  Lengthen the pushrod a few turns and try it again.

[Kai-by-Vecona]

Hello Don, hello Niel,

 

when I step on the clutch, there's a resistance quite at the beginning, then nothing happens and then about 3" before I hit the floor.

[Don Coatney]

There should be 2 springs associated with your clutch pedal. One is an over-center spring that both pulls the pedal up and when you depress the pedal past the center of travel it pulls the pedal down. The second spring is connected to the clutch fork and pulls on the fork to move the throw out bearing away from the pressure plate when the clutch pedal is fully in the up position. When pressing the pedal down by hand you should be able to push the pedal at least an inch and then feel the resistance of the throw out bearing making contact with the pressure plate. This one inch of movement is the "free" play. If you do not have this free play then your throw out bearing may be making contact with the pressure plate all the time thus causing the gear grinding. As Niel said lengthen the rod to adjust the free play.

 

Overcenter spring

 

 

Clutch fork spring

 

 

Adjust free play with  rod number 6-24-1

 

[Kai-by-Vecona]

Hello Don,

 

thank you very much for that detailed information. This really helps a lot. I'm out on a trade fair and try to solve this problem on Monday. I let you know if this works as soon as possible. This is really a very good explanation. Thank you very much.

 

Kai

[Kai-by-Vecona]

Hello Everybody,

 

here we go. I adjusted the rod so free play is now 1". The result is, that first and reverse still grind. I hope I understand right because I think after the 1" free play I hit the first over-center spring, then I'm able to press the pedal about 4" and then I feel the resistance of the clutch. Then, there's not much space left. I only could imagine, that I do not have enough way to really seperate the clutch. What do you think?

 

Kai

[austinsailor]

Your problem is in the clutch or pressure plate, not the transmission. If the adjustments are correct and it still grinds, as you describe, the clutch needs to come out. It could be the face of the clutch is coming apart, making it drag, it could be a problem with the pressure plate, or it could even be debris in the assembly.

Recently I had a similar problem with my late model Dodge pickup. Turned out that the rollers in the pilot shaft bearings had come loose and one roller was between the clutch and pressure plate causing it to drag when released. You have a bushing, not rollers, so that will not be your problem but any small piece of trash could cause it.

This might sound like bad news, but having done both - replaced clutches and disassembled the transmission - the clutch will be much easier, quicker and easier to find the necessary parts. Chances are you can get your clutch and pressure plate rebuilt locally. Transmission would have been much more complicated to get parts.

[Kai-by-Vecona]

Hi,

 

this sounds reasonable. I think I'm going to do this in the next weeks. I heard that there are companies they can reline clutch discs. If they can't do it I have to look in the US if anyone is going to ship.

Thanks for your help

 

Kai

[Young Ed]

Hello Everybody,

 

here we go. I adjusted the rod so free play is now 1". The result is, that first and reverse still grind. I hope I understand right because I think after the 1" free play I hit the first over-center spring, then I'm able to press the pedal about 4" and then I feel the resistance of the clutch. Then, there's not much space left. I only could imagine, that I do not have enough way to really seperate the clutch. What do you think?

 

Kai

 

 

This almost sounds to me like you've got 5" of freeplay. I suggest you take the inspection pan off and have a helper push the pedal while you watch the movement.

[austinsailor]

Ed is correct, make sure it is moving the throw out bearing arm correctly before you pull the transmission.

You should be able to remove the cover, have someone step on the clutch and see the pressure plate lift from the clutch. I'm not sure how to tell you exactly how far it should pull the pressure plate from the clutch, but I think it should be obvious.

It's always possible that some part has worn to the point it doesn't release enough. I once had a throw out bearing arm in a high performance Barracuda that had a crack and it would flex enough inside the bell housing that it wouldn't release. So, there are other possibilities.

[Don Coatney]

I agree with young Ed. I dont think your clutch is adjusted correctly. Contact forum member CptFred. He lives in Berlin and may be able to assist you in your clutch adjustment. Click on the link below.

 

http://p15-d24.com/user/1218-cptfred/

[Kai-by-Vecona]

Hmmm.... ok... perhaps I should spend an evening under the car first and then pull out all the stuff if neccessary.

 

Thanks a lot

 

Kai

[Kai-by-Vecona]

Good point :-) Could save lot's of work. Thank you!

[Kai-by-Vecona]

Hello all,

 

I now checked the free play and it's 1". The grinding doesn't stop, so I think I had to get the clutch out. The car is equipped with a fluid drive. Does anyone know if it's possible to get the tranmission out of the car through the inspection pan? I do not have a lifting ramp :-(