Idling And Overheating Problems.

[Papeenun41]

I converted my 41 Plymouth Deluxe to 12v. I purchased a rebuilt carb, Pertronix points and coil, sent the radiator to get cleaned, added an electric fan, flushed the coolant from the system, and my temperature gets to 190+. It iddles rough back fires and bleeds water from the radiator once it heats up and I turned it off. I tried setting the timing and it doesn't back fire as much, but still has all the symptoms I mentioned. The car was not heating up before the convertion, but it was not starting after heating to normal temp. Can someone please assist? It will be very much appreciated it. Thank you.

[hkestes41]

Your radiator will "bleed" off water until it gets to its own proper level. You can add fluid every time you run it and every time it gets to temp it will "bleed" off fluid. It settles at its own level. Once it is there no more bleeding.

 

Is your electric fan a pusher or puller? Set on a thermostat or just always on? What is the rating of the fan for air flow?

 

One thing you may want to consider is a fan shroud to insure the air is actually going through the radiator. Pretty simple to make.

[Papeenun41]

My fan is a pusher and it's rated at 2500rpm. It's not on a thermostat. I left it on with the ignition. Thank you for the advise in the fluid bleeding. Did not know that. Is the 190+ temp normal then? How about the back firing? Thank you.

[Young Ed]

Sounds like you still have a timing issue and possibly a coolant issue too. When you say you flushed the block what did you do? Were the lower core plugs removed? How about the water distribution tube? I got a flathead though Merle from someone that street rodded a pilot house pickup. One of the lower core plugs looked a little weapy so I knocked them both out and there was rust and gunk packed to the top of them.

[hkestes41]

190 is not too hot, in fact many run a 180 thermostat so no big deal.

 

Back firing could be a lot of things. Are you sure the plug wires are on correctly for firing order?

[greg g]

double check your wires from the dist to the spark plugs.  Or when it is running pull one wire at a time and that will tell you which of the cylinders is acting up.  Hint use of well insulated pliers is highly recommended.  When you pull the wire from the miss firing cylinder, usually nothing will happen to the way the engine is idling, when you pull a wire from a good cylinder the engine will have another miss fire. With that knowledge you can at least figure out which cylinders need attention.  Where are you getting your 190 reading?  is your gauge accurate, how do you know the 190 on the gauge is actually 190 in the engine?   Where is your idle mix screw set? screw it all the way in then back it out 1 1/2 turns for a basic initial setting. 

[Papeenun41]

I removed the plug by thedistributor only there was gunk when i removed thst one. i did not touch the water distribution tube.

[hkestes41]

Ed is absolutely right about the lower cooling passages. Not that difficult to remove the old freeze plugs and flush out the block. If it has never been cleaned out before you be amazed at the amount of crud that you can get out.

[Papeenun41]

My original gauge was not working. I installed a generic one and plugged it in the same place my original one was. I've noticed that the engine compartment is hotter than it used to. I'm having problems setting the time. I borrowed a timing gun from a friend and set it at TDC. (I used the hose trick which I learned on this forum). It runs better, but it's my first time setting a cars timing, still have a little back fire. Checked the wires with my manual and they seem to be placed correctly. Idle mix is at 1 3/4. Will be performing this new tips. I'll advise.

[1941Rick]

I had heating problems as well.....160 thermostat and the car was running 190 plus.

Went the electric fan route. On a toggle switch. would run it when pulling a hill.....still over heated. The fan was a so called "reversable fan". In other words efficient when pulling but very inefficient when pushing. I was going to have the rad flushed, but years of working on heavy machinery I was reluctant to do this because you do not get the inside of the cores all that clean. The block was boiled out at overhaul 2 years ago. I removed the electric fan and tossed it and put in a new aluminum rad and now it runs in the 160-170 range.

Pertonix---there has been disscussion about problem with this system before...might find something in the archives.

 

Good luck

[Don Coatney]

You said you set the timimg. To what exactly did you set it? Too much advance will cause overheating. One or two degrees advance is all you need for smooth operation. When did you last clean/replace the spark plugs? Did you inspect the inside of your distributor cap for cracks and/or carbon tracing? Is the spring and plunger inside the cap in good shape?

 

Is your cooling fan mounted flush to the radiator as in no stand offs? When I first installed my pusher fan I had it sitting about an inch away from the radiator. I found that most of the air was going through that 1 inch gap. Once I mounted it flush (as in the fan housing touching the front of the radiator) my cooling greatly improvved. I do recommend you install a thermostatically controlled fan switch. I used the one pictured below as it was the only one I found that was adjustable to the temperature range I needed. My fan never runs unless I am driving under 30 MPH and I have it set to come on at about 170 degrees. I do not use a belt driven fan only the electric.

 

 

[desoto1939]

On my 39 Desoto the timeing mark in 2 degree before TDC.  Check your repair manual on the timing.  This migt also be part of your over heating issue.. As you also stated you did not put in a new water tube so you can also have an issue with this being packed with junk.

 

Rich HArtung

desoto1939@aol.com

[JerseyHarold]

Is the heat riser valve moving freely and opening as the engine warms up?

[Papeenun41]

The fan is flush with the radiator. The distributor cap is checking ok. The heat raiser seems to be moving freely. Now the timing: I sat it right on the white mark they the crank shaft has. It was way advanced at first. I had to loosen the second distributor adjustment screw to set it to timing. The light was jumping all over place so I set it as best as I could. My repair manual sais right on TDC. I will try the timing again tomorrow. Any tips on timing?

[Papeenun41]

My fan does come with a thermostat, but I could not find a whole big enough to connect it to, so I just connected it to the starting switch. I'm thinking on buying a new radiator. Too bad I just paid $100 to get my original one cleaned. I'm confused because the car was not heating up before I took it to get cleaned.

[Papeenun41]

I had just replaced the spark plugs. I just checked them and they have a lot if carbon (black dust) on them.

[Dave72dt]

With the timing light jumping all over the place, it tells me you have a distributor problem.   Since you have Pertronix in it, I'll guess the shaft bushings, advance mechanisms may have some issues.

[JerseyHarold]

If your engine has a crankshaft pulley with a rubber ring, it may be broken and slipping, causing erratic timing readings.  Have you checked for slop in the timing chain?

[Papeenun41]

Should I go back to the reg points and condenser? I didn't know the pertronix would give me a problem. Will look into that issue, thank you guys for all the great advise. I've learned so much about my 41 in this site. I took it to a mechanic when it had the 6v pos ground and he told me that my problem was that the battery wires were reversed. I immediately took my car home and have been reading about it and working on it myself. I know I will get there one if this days. I will continue to read this post in order to become knowledgeable.

[Guest bewillie]

Nothing wrong with pertronix. Have used in several cars and will soon install in my 50 ply,which at 76 is going to be my last car.

[drillmastertommy]

Patience and perseverance are two words you will need to be familiar with. I had numerous issues with my 218 flat 6 and getting all of the parts working correctly together but starting with the basics and getting a lot of help from this site meant I eventually got there and now run a fantastic motor successfully as a daily driver!

I know there have been debates but I have a Pertronix ignitor system and it continues to perform faultlessly.

Good luck getting yours sorted.

[greg g]

What wires and reversed how???  Does this mechanic have any experience with 6 V systems or those that have been converted?  The pertronix deal is merely a different way of triggering the coil, it uses a visual or a magnetically induced signal rather than the mechanical opening of the points.  Assuming the system is working properly it should not have a part in your symptoms.  when you switched to 12v did you put a voltage resisting device between the ign switch and the coil?  Did you check the inside of your distributor cap looking for any carbon tracks that might be misdirecting spark within the cap?

[Dave72dt]

I didn't mean to imply the problem was with the pertronix.  Something mechanical may be affecting the triggering of it.  Do you have all the necessary componenrts required for that model Pertronix.  Is it wired correctly? Does it have the correct voltage?  How loose is the timing chain?  How worn are the dist bushings? Are the advance systems working properly?  Loose or poor connections?

 

How well does the rotor fit?.  If it had points in it, there could have been issues with them, as well as the condenser 

Edited June 17, 2013 by Dave72dt

[_shel_ny]

  The car was not heating up before the convertion, but it was not starting after heating to normal temp. Can someone please assist? It will be very much appreciated it. Thank you.

[Papeenun41]

The pertronix was installed as per the instructions. As per the instructions there was no need for a voltage resistor to be installed if I used a pertronix coil, which I did. As I stated before it was not overheating before the conversion. I'm thinking on getting a new aluminum radiator. I'm going to get a new timing gun since the one I borrowed might be not working properly. Hopefully this will resolve my issue. Waiting to be off work to spend some time on my car.