Can A 1939 Plymouth 201 Be Used In A Hot Rod?

[wheels777]

I have a rebuilt 39 Plymouth engine.  I tried to sell it and have had zero luck.  Lately, I've been thinking about installing it into a lil hot rod coupe to take land speed racing.  No big aspirations, just fun with some parts I own or can fab up.

 

 

Can this engine be hotrodded?

 

Is this a rod on crank, or does it have bearings?

 

Is there a 12 vDC starter?

 

Is there a bellhousing pattern I can use for an adaptor plate?

 

Would someone want this before I start to convert the chassis mounts?

Edited May 30, 2013 by wheels777

[Don Coatney]

Suggest you use the search function on this web page.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I would recommend you get the service manual for the car and first familiarized yourself with the many components/systems that make up this car and how they work...they rod riding mowers don't they..not much difference...

[_shel_ny]

You could list it in the buy/sell section of this site.

 

http://mopar.pairserver.com/p15d24ph_forum/index.php?app=classifieds

 

 

EDIT:  and welcome to the forum/site.

Edited May 30, 2013 by shel_bizzy_48

[wayfarer]

Can this engine be hotrodded?      All it takes is time and money

 

Is there a 12 vDC starter?     Yes

 

Is there a bellhousing pattern I can use for an adaptor plate?  You can adapt at the block or the bell

 

Would someone want this before I start to convert the chassis mounts?   You started with an engine and now talking about ??

 

"Land speed racing"...as in Bonneville?

Racing at Bonny starts with finding a class that you want to compete in and then designing a car for that class.

[Robert Horne]

 

I have a rebuilt 39 Plymouth engine.  I tried to sell it and have had zero luck.  Lately, I've been thinking about installing it into a lil hot rod coupe to take land speed racing.  No big aspirations, just fun with some parts I own or can fab up.

 

 

Can this engine be hotrodded?

 

Is this a rod on crank, or does it have bearings?

 

Is there a 12 vDC starter?

 

Is there a bellhousing pattern I can use for an adaptor plate?

 

Would someone want this before I start to convert the chassis mounts?

 

I used a 1956 12volt starter in my 38 Coupe.

I installed a 5speed Ranger trans, onto my original bellhousing, see the thread "5speed not T5"..

[greg g]

Lets see a 39 engine is a 201 with a 6.7 to one compression ratio, which makes 82HP, the Factory bored them out and raised the compression, basically hot rodding the 201 into a 218, It had 6.8 to 1 CR and made 97 Hp. then the factory stroked it making a 230 and raised the CR to 7.6 to 1 and it made 125 HP, then they designed a 2bbl intake and it made 132 HP. Then they raised the CR to 8.0 and went back to a 1bbl and it still made 132 HP. So basically your answer is yes, the 39 201 block can be made to produce 132 HP by boring it, stroking it and raising the Compression, all tricks in the hotrodder's repertoire, Or you could so the same thing to a 230 and, well you get the picture.

Were it mine, I would be on the look out for a late 20's or early 30's Frame and cowl and power a little speedster with it,there that 82 HP pulling around less that 1200 lbs would be a right spritly thing. Unless you can find a class for speed runs, where 130 HP will be effective and you're committed to spending lots of cubic dollars to run it once or twice a year.

Check with member Moose and ask him how much fun he has with his mopar flathead 6 powered modle A 2 dr sedan.

Edited May 30, 2013 by greg g

[Reg Evans]

Correct me if I'm wrong. The 201's and smaller c.i. flat 6's have a smaller diameter valve than a 218 or 230.

[TodFitch]

Is this a rod on crank, or does it have bearings?

 

Lots of other good comments already but I don't see a reference to this.

 

All cars have bearings on the big end of the rods. I think you are asking if the bearings are poured babbit or inserts and if inserts if they are modern style with a thin steel shell.

 

Your 201 came from the factory with modern style thin steel shell bearings that are still readily available. The bearings in your car are the same for Plymouth from 1933 through 1941. In 1942 when they introduced the 218 they changed out a bunch of stuff including all of the bearings.

[greg g]

Yer probably right Reg, valve work is in the rodders handbook also. My comments were meeeant as allegory rather than a road map.

[1941Rick]

If you go all the way on it I would use the 6 volt starter on 12 volts......quicker easier starting......

[wheels777]

Robert Horne - Thanks for the starter info and the trans idea.  I was looking at a G37 6 speed.  If someone had a block pattern to start with, I wanted to adapt to it.  I will look up the 5 speed info.

 

1941Rick - will that burn out the starter?

 

Tod Fitch - Thank you.  That's what I was looking for.  I am a newby to these engines. 

 

Wayfarer and greg g - I have a chassis and this engine.  If there is a fatal flaw with the 39 engine, I'd rather abort than through rods.  As far as cost of racing, we're aware.  We've done alot with very little.  The intent of asking here is to learn from those who know the engine. 

[40plyrod]

running a 6 volt starter on 12 volts is fine I've done it for 20 years on my 51 chevy pickup.

[Plymouthy Adams]

granny gonna clean your clock with her Camry....I could never weight the cost in favor of a limited outcome..cool?????  but what a price tag that comes with it...

[Robert Horne]

The 6 speed would be a great adaptation to our old flatheads.

I really like my 5 speed setup.

I used the 1983 to 1987 TK5 Ranger trans. Not expensive, and

no adapter needed.

[Don Coatney]

One problem with using a 6 volt starter on a 12 volt system. The 6 volt starter motor spins much faster when using 12 volts. This also caused the bendix to engage at warp speed. I did not like this as it made a loud clunk and also caused my starter gear to lock into the flywheel a couple times on my car. I had to rock my car forward and backward while it was in gear to pop the bendix gear back away from the ring gear to fix this. I switched to a 12 volt starter to eliminate this problem with success.

 

This trick of using a 6 volt starter on 12 volts has been used by hot rodders for a lot of years with success.Just did not work well for me. On a visit to a forum member this week past I observed this same clunk on his 12 volt converted car and alerted him to the problems I had.

[wheels777]

  

I used a 1956 12volt starter in my 38 Coupe.

I installed a 5speed Ranger trans, onto my original bellhousing, see the thread "5speed not T5"..

I could not find the thread by that name.

 

granny gonna clean your clock with her Camry....I could never weight the cost in favor of a limited outcome..cool?????  but what a price tag that comes with it...

I think you're asking about the cost.  The G37 trans is free and has a super 3-4, 4-5 and 5-6 gear split..  However, the T5 option sounds very interesting.  What are the gear ratios?

[Plymouthy Adams]

^{cost was not the object..it is the cost combined with limited performance that is  the let down..kinda like getting a Harley for 20+G's..then spend another 6 G's for engine mods so a 600 Honda can still blow you off the road in speed and handling...but I guess you look cool as he goes by..yeah cool as the cooling effect of the air movement...anyway..grannie still cream you with a Camry...but hey its you nickel..}

 

^{I tried to find the ratio's of the tranny you listed..it is a close ration is all I could find..wondered the 5th/6th as both of them are going to be OD gear sets..do not forget that with the flattie you have limited torque..torque is the twisting force to obtain and maintain speed...the stock 3.9 rear gear may need stay in place...}

[1941Rick]

My starter has been on steroids (12v) for 3 years....was rebuilt prior to going 12 volt.

Don...you may be right about the cluck because you are using a solinoid? Mine is a kick start, not an issue

[wayfarer]

I could not find the thread by that name.

 

I think you're asking about the cost.  The G37 trans is free and has a super 3-4, 4-5 and 5-6 gear split..  However, the T5 option sounds very interesting.  What are the gear ratios?

 

You might have 'super' gear splits but the final is still only a .79 reduction...not that great, especially for an engine that really does not like rpms over  4500. Have you spent any time, at all, looking at the design of any flathead inline six?  Yes, you can go fast with one, plenty of high dollar examples out there, so how fast can you afford to go?

 

There aren't going to be any off-the-shelf adapters for the trans, and depending on the trans design (integral bell?) and input shaft length (probably short) making a one-off adapter will be in the $1k range if it is even practical.  Yes we have made one-off adapters and they get very expensive. Perhaps you have an engineering background and your own machine shop...but then you would not be asking for the block pattern.

[Plymouthy Adams]

.79 is not much of an overdrive considering that you actually are probably splitting OD with 5th....anyone find the actual ratios of the tranny?  Of course..the rear gear plays a lot into this..could be it is also a rather high ratio coupled with this tranny so the rear gear can be used in a multitude of platforms.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Plymouthy Adams

[Don Coatney]

You are correct, with a foot stomp starter the clunk is not an issue.

[_shel_ny]

I could not find the thread by that name.

 

http://mopar.pairserver.com/p15d24ph_forum/topic/17737-5-speed-not-t5/?hl=%2Bspeed+%2Bnot

[Don Coatney]

anyone find the actual ratios of the tranny? 

 

Must be the worlds best kept secret as I could not find it anywhere either. I guess most customers are happy when told it is a close ratio gearbox even though most do not know what that means. I think most would be happy if the salesman told them it was a distant ratio transmission.

[wheels777]

You might have 'super' gear splits but the final is still only a .79 reduction...not that great, especially for an engine that really does not like rpms over  4500. Have you spent any time, at all, looking at the design of any flathead inline six?  Yes, you can go fast with one, plenty of high dollar examples out there, so how fast can you afford to go?

 

There aren't going to be any off-the-shelf adapters for the trans, and depending on the trans design (integral bell?) and input shaft length (probably short) making a one-off adapter will be in the $1k range if it is even practical.  Yes we have made one-off adapters and they get very expensive. Perhaps you have an engineering background and your own machine shop...but then you would not be asking for the block pattern.

Yes - Engineer.  A good one always asks what's available first.  Yes - Machine Shop.