New To Site, With New To Me Desoto.

[54Illinois]

If I were you....

 

-drop the oil pan, clean it out

-pull the head

-soak the cylinders

-crank the motor by hand

-if pistons stick, take off bearing caps to determine which one is trouble

 

See where that goes. 

 

NAPA has a ton of stuff for old Dodges, Plymouth's and Desoto's.  Most parts MUST be ordered...so order early in the week, to get it by the weekend!

[tharlanjr]

That's exactly what I was looking for. Is there a specific tourqe that I should be able to spin it at? I am really hoping to be able to keep this motor.

[54Illinois]

Just get a good cheater bar and spin.  A motor that drives can be turned by hand.  I had to remove a piston due to a rusted ring, and after that the motor spun with a large socket set.  I knew the piston was the issue as the other cylinders would not hold PB Blaster.  The seized cylinder filled up.  Be sure to mark anything you take off!  I use a scripto marker.

Edited April 26, 2013 by 54Illinois

[Ester Eddie]

That Desoto looks like a great car.So did you get a battery?Did you get the engine to turn over ?curious..

[knuckleharley]

Hey, I was shown this forum by someone on another forum.

 

I am picking up a 1950 Desoto hopefully this coming weekend. 

 

I went to a customers house and he restores "Brass Era" cars, he inherited this from someone on his wifes side. It was running when the orig owner died, it sat for a couple years in a barn, then it got towed to another barn where its been sitting. 

 

Before showing/telling me about it I had mentioned that my wife and I plan to get a 50's car one day to restore together. Then he brought up his Desoto. He said that if I wanted it I could have it for $500.

 

So I plan to pick it up asap.

 

I know very little about these but its in pretty dang good shape.

 

Here are some pictures.

 

What do you think?

 

============================================================================

What I think is that I am jealous. You were insanely lucky to find a DeSoto that complete,solid,and cheap. 

 

500 bucks is just about crusher-bait/stripped and rusted out value.

[knuckleharley]

who?

 

I've been searching but are there any good manuals or guides for these cars with wiring diagrams. really any info I can get for the flat head 6 would be great. 

The first t hing I would buy if I were you would be a Motors Manual that covers all 1950's American cars.  Any mechanical repair or tests you need to do will be covered there,and written in language plain enough somebody that has never worked on cars can understand it.

 

The next thing I would do is check the vendors on this web site for literature. You may be surprised at how much of the factory literature on old cars is now available on CD's at very reasonable prices.

 

BTW,do you know your carPROBABLY  has Fluid Drive? It's ain't the standard transmission you think it is just because it has a clutch pedal.  I say probably because I'm not familiar with 50 DeSotos,and I know some early 50's Chryslers could be bought with standard transmissions by special order.

[knuckleharley]

BTW.another poster further down the thread suggest a parts manual and a repair manual,and I will most definitely back up that suggestion. Especailly the parts manual. I was too cheap to buy one for years,and I wasted a ton of money buying parts the seller said would fit my various projects,but I found out they were wrong after getting the parts in the mail. This may not be such a big problem if you are doing a Ford or  a Chevy,but it can be a major problem with Mopars. Especially Canadian Mopars,that are a mixture of mechanical and body parts. I finally went so far as to buy a parts manuals for Canadian Dodges that covers my 42 Business Coupe after buying a NOS grille that was wrong for American cars,no matter how right it is for 1942 Canadian Dodges. Now I don't buy ANY body or trim part without checking the parts numbers first.

Edited April 28, 2013 by knuckleharley

[knuckleharley]

There is still decent looking oil when I checked the dipstick, have any tips on what we should do before we try to crank it over?

Yes. The first t thing is to remove the gas line going to the fuel pump,and drain all the old gas out of the gas tank and lines. Your carb will be dry,and there is no reason to be pumping rust and flat gas into it. You will be needing to add a inline gas filter BEFORE the fuel pump once you get it started,anyway.

 

Drain the oil and replace the oil filter. Put 4 quarts of 30 weight NON --DETERGENT oil in the engine (5 is a waste because  you will be draining it again right after you get it running),then use air to blow all the dirt away from the recesss where the spark plugs go,and then remove the spark plugs and spray a little WD-40 in each cylinder. Let it sit for a few minutes,and then try to turn the engine over by hand using the fan blade. If it turns easily,spray some more WD-40 in each cylinder, make sure ALL the electrical accessories are off,and then hook a 12 volt battery to it and sping the engine over with the starter while the plugs are still out. Do NOT spin the starter more than maybe 15 seconds at a time before letting go of the key and waiting a couple of minutes to let it cool down. Don't be surprised if you have to do this several times before oil pressure starts to show. I was about to quit on my 49 Chrysler because I had spun the engine over maybe a dozen times with nothing show,and I was thinking my oil pump was bad. I decided to spin it one more time,and damned if the oil pressure guage didn't jump up to 60 psi!

 

  Go into the house and drink a cup of coffee or something to let things settle back down,and then go out there again and repeat. The oil pressure gauge should show pretty much immediate oil pressure this time.. Once you get it to that point,go ahead and put NEW plugs in the engine,check the points,make sure you have fire at the coil and the plug wires,and then start it up using new gas in a can with a gas hose going straight to the carb. I have a one gallon paint can with a outlet in the bottom I use for this. I just hang it from the hood. Feel free to use anything handy,but I would be cautious about hanging any gas supply directly over the carb because of the danger of the engine backfiring and catching the car on fire.

 

Start the car up and keep a very close eye on the gauges to make sure it maintains oil pressure and that it doesn't run hot. You DID remember to squirt a few drops of oil into the generator and distributor,right? Run it until it gets up to normal operating temps,and then shut it down and immediately drain all the oil out of it and change the filter. NOW you can put 5 quarts of NON DETERGENT 30 weight oil in it and a new filter,and move on to taking the gas tank off to have a radiator shop boil it out and blowing out the gas line after carefully checking it with air to see if it has any pin holes in it from rust. If in any doubt at all,replace the whole gas line. I prefer to do that anyhow because the old one is sure to have rust in it. This is a lot cheaper than hiring a rollback to bring you back home.

 

When you put the gas tank back on it,make sure you put a quality gas filter in the line BEFORE it gets to the fuel pump. The reason for this is no matter how well the fuel pump is working today,you WILL be rebuilding it in the near future. Best to go ahead and plan on this and order a rebuilt kit for your pump or a rebuilt fuel pump while you are getting the gas tank done. Ditto for the water pump. You can count on replacing or rebuilding the water pump no matter how good it works when you first start the engine.

 

Then you can move on to the wonderful world of brake systems. The guy on Ebay from Argentina makes some pretty good brake hoses,and his prices are right. ABSOLUTELY plan on replacing all the wheel cylinders,rebuilding the master cylinder,and replacing all the hard brake lines as well as the brake hoses. No,this ain't cheap,but it may save your life and the lives of others,as well as saving your car. Remember,these cars only have a single outlet master cylinder,and if you lose just one wheel cylinder or brake line,you have no brades at all other than your emergency brake. Even if you want to overlook the injury problem,do you REALLY want to be buying a replacement grille,bumper,and front fenders for that thing?  Price them out and then compare that number with what it will cost you to completely rebuild the brakes,and the brake jost suddenly doesn't seem all that expensive.

 

Take your drums to a commercial brake shop and have them turned there. New brake shoes,if you need them,are fairly easy to find. If you have problems,email me and I can turn you on to a brake shop in ND that probably has new brake shoes. Chances are they will just be the brake shoe material and you will have to get them rivited to your old shoe hardware,though. You may have to find a older brake shop to handle this for you since you probably don't have the tool to do this yourself. You may not need new shoes,though.

[knuckleharley]

I'm east of San Diego. It has a battery in it, but its probably dead. I might try to throw a charge in it since it looks to be a newer battery. <<

I have no idea how much you know about mechanical work,so I have to say this. No insult intended,but PLEASE make sure you have a battery charger that also charges 6 volt batteries before you hook it up. Most battery charges sold today only charge 12 volt batteries,and bad things may happen if you hook one to a 6 volt battery.

 

[tharlanjr]

Alright, we got the DeSoto into its spot to be worked on. Its in the Mountains so it has to be near power so our rat buzzer can be plugged in. 

 

I took the whole front clip off so I have better access to the whole engine. 

 

Next weekend I will bring up oil and try to get it to turn. I was able to get it to move a little but I didn't want to go any further without oiling it. It moved about an inch then the belt started slipping and I stopped. 

 

I won't be starting it anytime soon. It needs new spark plug wires and the gas pedal is stuck. One its all nice and loose I will be following the directions from you knuckleharley. 

 

The engine looks to be in rough shape so we aren't too positive in it running. We have tossed around the idea of swapping in a 318 and keeping the rest stock. More of a restomod I guess. 

 

 

The front bumper piece I though was missing ended up being in the trunk! A little bent but its there. 

 

I tell you what though. Cleaning this thing out and sitting it it yesterday was a GREAT feeling. 

 

Thanks again for all the info. 

[tharlanjr]

Today I messed with the DeSoto a little bit.

I lubed up the cylinders and the engine will rotate pretty easily. I can hear air from the intake so it sounds like there is at least some compression.

Does anyone have a parts shop cross reference for engine parts?

I need a water pump for sure, and basic stuff for a full tune up.

[Plymouthy Adams]

your local big box should be able to provide you help...IF your store is like some areas they really do not care to cater to the old car because it is not in the computer and they refuse to go to the books..try getting your part number by looking it up on Rock Auto website first..then present them with that nuber and it should cross in their system.

[Young Ed]

Besides rock auto try looking up the parts on your local chains own website. I have on a few occasions been told they didn't have something only to come home do my homework on their own website and go back with a part # for them.

[tharlanjr]

I looked under dodge for that same year and found what seems to be the same engine. Can anyone tell me for sure if this is the correct water pump?

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1487166,parttype,2208

[greg g]

When you look for tune up stuff take the distributor number off the side of the dist body with you.  Should start with 1AD  1AT or similar.  Mopar used a variety of distributors that all look very much the same, till you look at them carefully.  Points position changed, dist caps are different by application and so are rotors.  And though the distributors will interchange from one engine to another (assuming the same length block) the parts do not.  Plus it is much easier to deal with changing tune up parts with the dist on the bench, so pulling it to get the number is not a wasted excercise.  Just reference the position of the body and the direction of the rotor and mark them on the block.  Going back in the dist can only go in correctly or 180 off.  That water pump looks correct from the picture but you never know 100%.

[_shel_ny]

I looked under dodge for that same year and found what seems to be the same engine. Can anyone tell me for sure if this is the correct water pump?

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1487166,parttype,2208

When you get a pump, compare the backing plates. Swap if different. (# of holes.  internal/external bypass) (type of housing. bump/no bump) And that all hinges upon whether or not the correct one is presently installed.

[54Illinois]

NAPA sent out my original water pump for a rebuild $45.

[tharlanjr]

How much of the orig water pump needs to be there? The internals look to be pretty shot.

I will give them a call tomorrow. Thanks.

Edited May 20, 2013 by tharlanjr

[B-Watson]

The Dodge six cylinder engine is not the same as DeSoto.  Dodge shared the 23" engine block flathead six with Plymouth in the U.S. while DeSoto shared the 25" engine block with Chrysler.  In Canada, they all used the 25" block. 

[frankieflathead]

Congratulations on your new score. It looks like a real solid car to start with. Although the discussion here has been about the engine, I thought I'd mention something about another subject, since you said that this is your first old MoPaR. It's a fairly simple thing, but might save you a little head scratching (and possibly worse!) down the road.

 

When these cars were new, the wheel studs on the driver's side were reverse thread. That is to say, righty loosey, lefty tighty. All things being equal, studs will have an "L" stamped into the top. However, that will only be the case if a stud has not been replaced at some time with a standard thread one or if the front drums have not been swapped or replaced with an incorrect one. Just a cautionary note to save you a little grief when the time comes to start pulling the wheels off. I'll bet most of us here have snapped off a stud or two when we first started messing around with these cars.

 

Best of luck with your project and please keep us updated as it goes along.

[James_Douglas]

One thing I would do that has not been talked about is...

 

Take off the side covers and clean out the little "ponds" that feed oil to the lifters.  The lifters are gravity fed by oil flowing into the little ponds and there is a hole in the bottom that allows oil to flow to the lifters.  The old ash in the old oil build up and these ponds do not allow any oil to build up.  I have seen old engines get destroyed by a lack of oil to the lifters and cam lobes.  Also, the holes can get dried over with oil sitting in the ponds for years dry.  I would turn over or try to start a MOPAR flathead engine that has been sitting without cleaning out both the little ponds and the oil pan.

 

James

 

PS.  Go start reading here:

 

http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/index.htm