1952 B3b with Cummins 4bt

[John-T-53]

RE: springs....I had a pair of fronts rebuilt for about $160 at A-1 Spring in Oakland, CA.

[1952B3b23]

I removed the front springs today and realized that one side had 7 leaves and the other had 8. How many are there suppose to be?

Also i removed the king pins, all it took was a BFH, heat, and one smashed thumb and both sides came free. I did realize that the surface of the spindles on both passenger and driver side are a bit rough. Does this mean i need to get new spindles or can i have mine turned down to get rid of the grooves in them? I plan on doing the front disc brake conversion, so i dont know if that effects the answer to that question at all.

Thanks

-Chris

[judsonhauling]

awesome man.. hardest part of a 4bt swap into anything is sourcing one at a decent price

[1952B3b23]

awesome man.. hardest part of a 4bt swap into anything is sourcing one at a decent price

Thank you! Yea it sure wasnt easy finding one, i searched for months and finally found one at a local diesel shop 10 mins away from me. I payed $2,300 for it which seems about average for a good running 4bt. A 6bt can be had for a considerable amount less than that but frankly it's just to much motor for my 1/2 ton frame. Again, thanks for showing interest in this.

-Chris

[Frank Elder]

Did you guys know that in the early 60's one of the dodge truck options was a perkins diesel..............

[1952B3b23]

Did you guys know that in the early 60's one of the dodge truck options was a perkins diesel..............

Nope i actually didnt know that! I just did a quick google search and found this site that gave a bit of info on the Perkins. Thanks for bringing it up, very cool

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/perkins.html

-Chris

[1952B3b23]

I removed the front springs today and realized that one side had 7 leaves and the other had 8. How many are there suppose to be?

Also i removed the king pins, all it took was a BFH, heat, and one smashed thumb and both sides came free. I did realize that the surface of the spindles on both passenger and driver side are a bit rough. Does this mean i need to get new spindles or can i have mine turned down to get rid of the grooves in them? I plan on doing the front disc brake conversion, so i dont know if that effects the answer to that question at all.

Thanks

-Chris

Any one have any ideas on this, im kinda stumped

Thanks

[Jeff Balazs]

Chris;

If you do a disc conversion these spindles will probably still work......you can probably get by with a little mill file and emery cloth clean up.

Jeff

[1952B3b23]

Chris;

If you do a disc conversion these spindles will probably still work......you can probably get by with a little mill file and emery cloth clean up.

Jeff

Okay i will try that and see how smooth i can get them. Do you know how many leaves are suppose to be on the front leaf springs? One side on mine has 7 and the other has 8.

Thanks

-Chris

[PatS....]

The same but different:D

[Dan Babb]

For new springs, google St. Louis Spring and give them a call. I needed new front springs and they're prices were great. They just needed the info on the truck and they had the specs. For my 52, I had them leave out one leaf to soften the ride, but had them put it in the box in case I needed it down the road.

Good guys to deal with...but their stuff isn't made out of the precious metals that Eaton must use. I can live with that.

[1952B3b23]

For new springs, google St. Louis Spring and give them a call. I needed new front springs and they're prices were great. They just needed the info on the truck and they had the specs. For my 52, I had them leave out one leaf to soften the ride, but had them put it in the box in case I needed it down the road.

Good guys to deal with...but their stuff isn't made out of the precious metals that Eaton must use. I can live with that.

Thanks for the info i will give them a call. Im going to ask them if they can tell me what the load rating is for the springs. Im debating on if i should ask them to add a leaf because of the added weight of the diesel. Do you remember how much a new set of springs cost you?

-Chris

[1952B3b23]

The same but different:D

Yea those are all cool swaps, the Detroit 4-53 is a slick little motor. They've swapped Cummins 4bts into countless vehicles. A quick youtube search shows some pretty neat stuff.

[Jeff Balazs]

Okay i will try that and see how smooth i can get them. Do you know how many leaves are suppose to be on the front leaf springs? One side on mine has 7 and the other has 8.

Thanks

-Chris

Chris;

My 3/4 ton front end has 7 springs each side. I believe the 1/2 tons and 3/4 ton had this setup but the spring ratings were a bit higher on the 3/4 ton springs. Deavers Springs in Santa Ana, Ca. has all the spring data for each model........I imagine others have this data as well.

Jeff

[ggdad1951]

my one ton has 8 leaves on the front

[1952B3b23]

So 7 leaves looks like the right amount for a 1/2 ton. When i call St. Louis Spring i will ask them how many and what the spring ratings are.

-Chris

[Dan Babb]

Here is an older post where I have more details on cost and their contact info.

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=32427&highlight=Louis+spring

I have a heavier 354 hemi in mine and 6 leafs hold it fine. The second from the bottom is the one left off. If the diesel is heavier than the hemi...the leave that one in.

I do have a 1/2 ton though.

[1952B3b23]

The diesel weighs 750 lbs dry, im thinking thats slightly heavier than the hemi. I'll talk to the folks at St. Louis Spring and see what they say. Thanks for the link to that thread.

 

-Chris

 

PS- This new forum setup is awesome, love the new look!!!

[wayfarer]

Any one have any ideas on this, im kinda stumped

Thanks

 

I'm not sure that it will make much difference if you have a spring shop either rebuild yours or make new sets... just explain what you are trying to accomplish (ride height and such) and estimate the weight and let them design the package.

If you decide to play with the springs yourself, you will want to clean them to bare metal, mag-check the center holes and the ends of the main leafs for cracks (or even the entire leaf).

Compare each leaf, from the same position on each side, to compare the amount of arch and the length.  You will quickly see by the wear spots if one side has an extra or is short one leaf.

If all leafs are in good condition you could simply reassemble and install them after deciding the issue of the leaf count. Springs really don't know where they are installed, in which position or in what vehicle. Unless they have tapered ends that you need/want to maintain you can shorten a donor to fit your needs. The important things to consider are the lengths, the leaf thickness and the amount of arch. Unless the vehicle has more weight on one side (offset engine) then all pieces from both side should be the same.

If you need more capacity consider adding a full length leaf under the main (you can use a donor main leaf, just cut the eyes off)  There are some tricks to leaf arch and placement that I learned back in the 'old' days but I don't type well or fast so won't start now. Yes, you can change the arch at home.  Be happy to discuss on the phone if ya need.

 

Gary

[1952B3b23]

I'm not sure that it will make much difference if you have a spring shop either rebuild yours or make new sets... just explain what you are trying to accomplish (ride height and such) and estimate the weight and let them design the package.

If you decide to play with the springs yourself, you will want to clean them to bare metal, mag-check the center holes and the ends of the main leafs for cracks (or even the entire leaf).

Compare each leaf, from the same position on each side, to compare the amount of arch and the length.  You will quickly see by the wear spots if one side has an extra or is short one leaf.

If all leafs are in good condition you could simply reassemble and install them after deciding the issue of the leaf count. Springs really don't know where they are installed, in which position or in what vehicle. Unless they have tapered ends that you need/want to maintain you can shorten a donor to fit your needs. The important things to consider are the lengths, the leaf thickness and the amount of arch. Unless the vehicle has more weight on one side (offset engine) then all pieces from both side should be the same.

If you need more capacity consider adding a full length leaf under the main (you can use a donor main leaf, just cut the eyes off)  There are some tricks to leaf arch and placement that I learned back in the 'old' days but I don't type well or fast so won't start now. Yes, you can change the arch at home.  Be happy to discuss on the phone if ya need.

 

Gary

Thanks for all the really good info. I dont think i will try messing with the springs myself id rather let someone else design the package and hopefully supply exactly what i want/need. That way while thats happening i can hopefully install a new set of king pins and get my disc brake conversion under way. Does anyone have any good sources for king pin sets, i've seen them for sale on rock auto for around $150. I dont know if this is a typical price as i've never had to do king pins before.

 

-Chris

[1952B3b23]

So i just called St. Louis Spring and they want $210 for a set of front leaf springs (8 leaves each), and about 1 day to make them. This sounds like a decent price to me and im pretty sure im going to get them. The one question i am having is that they told me the front eye on the spring comes threaded, but the rear eye where the shackle attaches does not. Is this normal, and for the guys who have springs from St. Louis Spring is this how yours came too?

 

Thanks,

 

-Chris

[1952B3b23]

Update: I haven't began the swap yet because im still collecting parts so i can begin.

 

1. I just ordered a set of hydraulic fluid filled motor mounts to help cut down vibration as much as possible.

 

2. Contacted St. Louis Springs and will order a new set of front leaf springs in the coming week.

 

3. Will be ordering the disc brake conversion kit from old daddy in the coming week.

 

4. Need to have the king pin bushings removed from my spindles and have new ones installed. Then i will be able to install the new king pin set (when i order it)

 

Im thinking after i have the front suspension rehabbed and back in place i should be able to figure out the motor fitment and start fabricating the motor  mounts. Stay tuned, i'll update with pics as things get more interesting.

 

-Chris

[Big50Dodge]

Following this closely. I was interested in putting a 6bt in my 50 B-2-F, but it's waaaayyyy to long. 4Bt could be an option for later.

Chris, on the springs, I think your in Massachusettes somewhere... correct..? If so, you can check with Donavan spring in Londonderry NH. I've used them for replacement springs on my personal vehicles a couple times. I'm not sure they are the most pleasant to deal with, but they do have quite a spring operation. Picture a set of stairs.... over the phone, their knowledge is at the top step, while you might be speaking 2 or 3 stairs up. Very easy to get confused or misunderstand what they are talking about. I find that going there frequently clears things up. You may or may not be close enough to get there personally. They are physically in Londonderry, NH, but they are right on the Manchester NH line. They are available some saturdays.

Have fun.

Keith

[1952B3b23]

Following this closely. I was interested in putting a 6bt in my 50 B-2-F, but it's waaaayyyy to long. 4Bt could be an option for later. Chris, on the springs, I think your in Massachusettes somewhere... correct..? If so, you can check with Donavan spring in Londonderry NH. I've used them for replacement springs on my personal vehicles a couple times. I'm not sure they are the most pleasant to deal with, but they do have quite a spring operation. Picture a set of stairs.... over the phone, their knowledge is at the top step, while you might be speaking 2 or 3 stairs up. Very easy to get confused or misunderstand what they are talking about. I find that going there frequently clears things up. You may or may not be close enough to get there personally. They are physically in Londonderry, NH, but they are right on the Manchester NH line. They are available some saturdays. Have fun. Keith

 

First off im glad that you're interested in this! I was also thinking about the 6bt at first but you're right they are very long for these trucks. I actually saw a picture of a pilothouse with a 6bt in it and the last two cylinders where literally inside the cab. The 4bt should fit pretty nicely as its really not that much longer than the flat head 6 that was in the truck before. I'm going to have to notch the firewall a little bit to make clearance for the bellhousing but it shouldn't be to bad. 

 

Yup i am from Massachusetts i live in a town called Wilbraham which is right outside Springfield, Its actually the hometown of Friendly's Ice Cream. But any who, i'll keep that outfit in mind. The St. Louis Spring guys seemed very easy to work with and the price and lead time sounded reasonable. I hope to order them some time this week. Thanks for the info on them though.

 

-Chris

[1952B3b23]

Update:

 

I dont know if i had mentioned this before but the diesel motor i have had the wrong styled oil pan on it for an automotive application. So today i installed a rear sump type pan and a rear sump oil pick up tube. I also received the hydraulic motor mounts on Saturday, so im slowly gathering the parts i need to really get going on this. Attached is a pic of the new oil pan.