218- Powerflite - V/6 question

[bob westphal]

I have a lot of left foot problems and I'm no longer able to drive my P15 Coupe. I am contemplating several solutions. One is possibly installing a Dakota V/6. The other thought is a '55-'59 Powerflite tranny swap.

The questions are - will a '55-'59 Powerflite bolt right up to the 218 engine and how much trouble would the V/6 swap be other than the rear axle, cross member, etc.?

Bob

[Plymouthy Adams]

I have a lot of left foot problems and I'm no longer able to drive my P15 Coupe. I am contemplating several solutions. One is possibly installing a Dakota V/6. The other thought is a '55-'59 Powerflite tranny swap.

The questions are - will a '55-'59 Powerflite bolt right up to the 218 engine and how much trouble would the V/6 swap be other than the rear axle, cross member, etc.?

Bob

Bob..here is a late model 3.7 Doakota V6 sitting in the engine bay of a P15..with the tapered nose it is a full fit left to right and front to rear..and requires a bit of extensive inner fender work also in order to get all the misc. stuff to fit but I did keep all the electronics, fuel delivery/evap system, SMPI, stock fan, electric aux fan, AC, etc etc...

[Young Ed]

If your 218 is in good shape or you are happy with it I would just swap to an automatic. Besides the powerflites there are adaptors available to use a torqueflite or a more modern auto.

[james curl]

Wilcap makes an adapter to use any of the modern General Motors pattern automatic transmissions. The old stand by 350 or 350C which has a lock up torque convertor to increase gas mileage are easy and fairly cheap to obtain. I am sure someone makes an adapter for MoPar automatics as well.

[40P10touring sedan]

To keep a flathead 6 and aquire a modern auto trans...OD or simple old 3 speed, theres two choices....GM adaptors or mopar adaptors.

Now, to aquire a different motor/trans in there....that leaves things wide open as to options....I'd try and keep the engine/trans from the same donor vehicle though.

[48mirage]

I havent looked into it much but the new v-6 like they use in the basic challenger is a newer design and If a salvageable drivetrain can be found it might be the easiest thing. From what I understand the new v-6 is just under 20" long and the exhaust manifold is incorporated into the heads that would seem to make things a little narrower. http://www.pentastars.com/engines/tech.php

[bob westphal]

Thanks for the advise everyone! Tim Adams went through a lot of work installing his V/6. From the picture he posted, I am convinced the Dakota engine isn't for me. The automatic conversion makes good sense and would be less costly and much easier. My old engine was spitting compression rings out the tailpipe and now needs a re-bore. It would be much easier to rebuild and go auto.

Thanks

bob

[Plymouthy Adams]

Thanks for the advise everyone! Tim Adams went through a lot of work installing his V/6. From the picture he posted, I am convinced the Dakota engine isn't for me. The automatic conversion makes good sense and would be less costly and much easier. My old engine was spitting compression rings out the tailpipe and now needs a re-bore. It would be much easier to rebuild and go auto.

Thanks

bob

the total involvement installing this setup is not for everyone I assure you..it is quite in depth...however the goal was to take full advantage of the modern donor..everything but the windshield wipers and the Dakota radiator has been used from the donor vehicle..the wheels I am using for the moment but will be swapped to five lug shortly..

[falconvan]

Bob, I would think your simplest and most price effective option would be a carbureted slant six with a 904 automatic. Fuel and wiring would be easy, you'd just have to fabricate motor and trans mounts and some kind of shifter. You could keep the stock rear; any reputable drive shaft shop should be able to build you a hybrid driveshaft to connect a standard 904 three speed auto to the stock rear. The old slant sixes dont have a ton of power but they are reliable and parts are cheap. Plus, they are still fairly easy to come by and reasonably priced for a good one.

[54Illinois]

I always wondered if the 218 would power the Powerflite correctly. The Powerflite only came with the 230...

[wayfarer]

Bob, I would think your simplest and most price effective option would be a carbureted slant six with a 904 automatic..

The /6 is considerably longer than a L6. They are great engines but they consume alot of space.

Look at the 50 Dodge Fester60 is working on. Most of the swap related details would be similar. It will be difficult to find a more reliable engine than a 318, however, if you want/need to use the 3.9 v-6 there are intake manifolds available for carbs.

As to a late TF trans for the 218, check my web site www.qualityengineeredcomponents.com

[Tim Keith]

The /6 is considerably longer than a L6. They are great engines but they consume alot of space.

Slant sixes are a little longer, the bore spacing is probably closer to a 251 than a 218. I thought the GM 3500 inline five cylinder from a Colorado truck might be good, but many GM fans don't like them. The GM 3800 V6 from a Camaro is probably relatively easy to swap if you get the entire parts car. There is a supercharged version as well.

[james curl]

Has any one considered a straight inline 4.0 six from a Jeep Cherokee for the their older MoPar cars. They seem to be about the same length as a slant six so would not be any more work to install than a slant six and not take up the entire width of the engine compartment. Besides they are also made by Chrysler, just a thought, still better than a Chevy in there.

[wayfarer]

Good thought James. The 4.0l Jeep is an extremely durable engine and makes decent power. I too am surprised that folks don't look at them as they are plentiful in the pic-n-pull yards.

[Tim Keith]

As the bore of the Jeep 4.0 is 3.88-inch I think it would require some rework to fit. The 4.0 is a popular motor for a variety of reasons. Inline sixes as a whole are disappearing except for rear drive luxury cars like BMW, I don't know how much longer BMW will build those. Some of the 4.0 tooling dated from 1964, instead of investing in a upgraded series Chrysler stopped building them.

[greg g]

If I am not mistaken the OA length of the 4.0 is 31 inches, not including the fans (which are electric) nearly 7 inches of length that would need to be accomodated somewhere.

[james curl]

My engine exchange book lists the AMC 232/258, Chevy 250, Ford 144/250 and the MoPar 170/198/225 engines all in the 30/31 inch length category. The only difference that I can see that is different about them all is the MoPar slant sixes are much wider in area when installed. The MoPar 272/318/340/360 all show to be 29 1/2" long from the rear of the engine block to the front of the water pump. The much dis-liked SBC's come in at just 26 1/2" in length which may be why so many people install them in everything with wheels. Also across the width at the exhaust manifolds the SBC comes in at 23 1/2" in width while the SBMPs come in at 25" in width. Putting any of them into an old MoPar takes some cutting somewhere. I measured my 218 as close as I could in the car and it appears that from the back of the engine block to the end of the water pump is 28 1/2" which is not that much shorter than most modern OHV I 6s.

Edited October 27, 2012 by james curl
additional information

[Tim Keith]

I think the GM(Buick) 3800 V6 is 24 inches long. Some of the 60-degree V6s would be more compact, but most weren't built for rear drive. A few have swapped the newer 60-degree V6 into S-10 trucks. Some 3.4 liter 60-degree V6s were used in Camaros. The 4.3 Chevy V6 is also popular.

[40P10touring sedan]

I heard not too long ago that jeep had a new L6 motor out and the jeep guys, one of my friends being one of them, were all excited over it....I know nothing about it but the web might shed some light....and as said - it is a mopar.

Wish there was a way to get some of the older FWD mopar motors...turbo V6, 2.2/2.4 L4 turbo and the like, adapted to a RWD trans for use...I know my 86 GLH turbo, though a much lighter car than my 40 sedan, went like heck with that motor.

[wayfarer]

I heard not too long ago that jeep had a new L6 motor out and the jeep guys, one of my friends being one of them, were all excited over it....I know nothing about it but the web might shed some light....and as said - it is a mopar.

Wish there was a way to get some of the older FWD mopar motors...turbo V6, 2.2/2.4 L4 turbo and the like, adapted to a RWD trans for use...I know my 86 GLH turbo, though a much lighter car than my 40 sedan, went like heck with that motor.

Some of those engines were used in the 'little' trucks so, although limited, rwd trans were used along the way. And, if the desire is there, making a one-off trans adapter is always an option. Manual trans not so difficult...the issue with an auto trans is finding a suitable piece without a pile of computers attached.

[bob westphal]

I bought a great running 225 with 902 torqueflite for $350 yesterday. Has anyone on this forum installed a slant 6 in a p-15? Like has been mentioned the SL6 is 2-3" longer similar to the 251 and is wider than most sixes. According to my measurements it should fit by moving the radiator forward of the core support, using a electric fan in front of the radiator and by moving the battery box elsewhere.

[BobT-47P15]

I think this car, owned by a fellow from the area, has a slant 6 in it.

But I don't think I've ever taken a picture of it.....or even looked at

it very closely.

[40plyguy]

If you google "fuel injection for street rods by Brian Long", you"ll see a 40's Mopar with a slant six. I think originally the article was on the slantsix.org forum. You may be able to get Brian's e-mail address for more info.