Why Die cast or stainless steel?

[windsor8]

Does anyone have a theory or know why Chrysler used chrome plated die cast on Chrysler and DeSoto grills and stainless steel on Dodge and Plymouth? Granted the die cast grills were much richer looking for the higher end Chrysler and DeSoto.

[Roadkingcoupe]

Does anyone have a theory or know why Chrysler used chrome plated die cast on Chrysler and DeSoto grills and stainless steel on Dodge and Plymouth? Granted the die cast grills were much richer looking for the higher end Chrysler and DeSoto.

Possibly cheaper to stamp Stainless steel then cast "pot metal".

Interestingly, US built 1939 Plymouth vehicles had stainless steel trim and Canadian cars had pot metal. Funny since the climate in Canada was not kind to the cast trim and the kinder weather climate to the South would have been a better choice for the pot metal.

The trim is interchangeable so no problem fitting the stainless on Canuck cars that have long been parted from the disintegrated pot metal.

[windsor8]

Possibly cheaper to stamp Stainless steel then cast "pot metal".

Interestingly, US built 1939 Plymouth vehicles had stainless steel trim and Canadian cars had pot metal. Funny since the climate in Canada was not kind to the cast trim and the kinder weather climate to the South would have been a better choice for the pot metal.

The trim is interchangeable so no problem fitting the stainless on Canuck cars that have long been parted from the disintegrated pot metal.

Could it have been they weren't looking down the road for the long run when the pot metal was used. It doesn't make sense to tool up twice for the same parts.

[Roadkingcoupe]

In the late 1930's (38?) Chrysler Canada started Manufacturing long block motors out of the newly built engine plant in Windsor Ontario Canada.

ALL Canadian Plymouhs received the larger motor.

The trim was made specifically for the CDN market.

I guess they were trying to make as much of the car in Canada as possible for trade rule reasons.

B-Watson would be the expert on the topic.

Looking forward to hearing his expert opinion.

[michael.warshaw]

It was all about the bottom dollars, when they wanted to have it made like most auto manufacturers they would go to their suppliers, and bids were placed for the parts needed to build the said car. If pot metal came in cheaper, that was the choice. If stainless steal at the time was cheaper and the supply was avaialbe stainless it was.

If you look at the prewar mopars(41-42's), there was such options as the blackout models which had very little metal trim due to the war effort.

An old timer i know told me that there were bid sheets for parts productions that his factory in brooklyn ny used to bid on to make the parts for the chrysler corporation.

On a side note in the early 50's most fiberglass panels that were used for the corvette were manufactured right here in long island ny, because the vendor who won the bid was loacted here.

im sure this was not written in stone, but im sure it had alot to do with the parts nd materials used for production. i know pot metal cost alot more to make then stainless steal products and trim.

if you look at a p15 grill its made of all stainless, but the tail lights and other piees are die cast, it also must of had somnething to do with the ability to manufacture the peices with the level of technology wthat was available back them.

Edited August 22, 2012 by michael.warshaw

[greg g]

I believe black out models were in response to government issued cease and dissist orders involving war material like copper nickle chrome and stainless. they werer't really an option, they were a make do as best as we can. Castings were used when details or design elements could not be accomplished by a punch press.

[michael.warshaw]

I believe black out models were in response to government issued cease and dissist orders involving war material like copper nickle chrome and stainless. they werer't really an option, they were a make do as best as we can. Castings were used when details or design elements could not be accomplished by a punch press.

thats makes sence. good point mr h

[eh dubya]

Interestingly, US built 1939 Plymouth vehicles had stainless steel trim and Canadian cars had pot metal.

As well as this and the longer motor the US cars have one angle from floor to firewall while the Canadian version has two like the larger US cars. I wonder if the long motor necessitated it or it was economics like the trim and they shared the floor with a sibling.

[Dodgeb4ya]

I think die cast was used on the more upper line cars to create much more intricate design shapes for greater details. I like the 1946-8 Chryslers because of all the beautiful diecast details in the chrome work. You can get only so much detail and design work by stamping a piece of stainless. DeSoto and Chryslers use lots of diecast which is costly to design and chrome plate. Plymouth and Dodge were the cheaper cars and got mostly stainless trim.

Bob

Edited August 22, 2012 by Dodgeb4ya

[Andydodge]

An interesting question........my Oz 1940 Dodge uses 1940 Plymouth headlight surrounds........of the 20 or so that I have found over the past 40 yrs, all bar 3 have been diecast, which as we know pit and corrode and are difficult to repair/rechrome.......the 3 that are not diecast are made of stamped steel, yep ordinary steel......they rust BUT are repairable and easily replated.........why the difference?.....who knows, as these would not have been made here in Oz, thats for sure........and guess what the 1940 Dodge grilles are made of, at least ALL the ones I have seen here in Oz and thats around 10......not steel, stainless steel nor diecast....yep BRASS stampings all soldered together and chromed.......you'd think it would be infinately more expensive to assemble a grille from brass then stamp steel or cast it........regards, andyd

[Plymouthy Adams]

The 41 Dodge butterfly grille halves are cast also..and the Canadian model is likewise..but the two will not come close to interchanging..the grille opening is also not backed with metal like the P15 for example that the stainless strips bolt to..the strength of the cast I beleive was a necessity in some designs

[desoto1939]

I can also add that when I had the grill on my 39 Desoto replated we found out that the grill was brass so that is why it never pitted and kept a decent shine.

The belt trim on the side of my car are all stainless steel. The headlight and taillight rings are pot metal.

Rich HArtung

[Roadkingcoupe]

The 41 Dodge butterfly grille halves are cast also..and the Canadian model is likewise..but the two will not come close to interchanging..the grille opening is also not backed with metal like the P15 for example that the stainless strips bolt to..the strength of the cast I beleive was a necessity in some designs

The Canadian 1941 Dodge D20 & D21 were Plodges utilizing the Plymouth body.

You are correct in regards to the grill application.

They look similar BUT the CDN grill has a different profile and needs to match the contour of the 41 Plymouth headlamp bezels.

The US vs. CDN grills also differ in the number of horizontal bars.

Here are two pictures of CDN Plodges a 1941 Dodge D20 and a 1939 Dodge D 12 (13?) Both are Plymouth bodied Dodges with specialized trim to convert the Plymouth body to look like a Dodge. All grill trim is cast pot metal.

[Robert Horne]

My 38 P5 bus. Coupe has a hood oranament and grille trim made of stainless,

where as my 38 P6 Delux Coupe has a hood oranament and grille trim made

of pot metal......

[old stovebolt]

I believe black out models were in response to government issued cease and dissist orders involving war material like copper nickle chrome and stainless. they werer't really an option, they were a make do as best as we can. Castings were used when details or design elements could not be accomplished by a punch press.

Interesting, sounds correct:eek:.

[B-Watson]

In the late 1930's (38?) Chrysler Canada started Manufacturing long block motors out of the newly built engine plant in Windsor Ontario Canada.

ALL Canadian Plymouhs received the larger motor.

The trim was made specifically for the CDN market.

I guess they were trying to make as much of the car in Canada as possible for trade rule reasons.

B-Watson would be the expert on the topic.

Looking forward to hearing his expert opinion.

A little historical background -

Prior to 1931 auto parts were subject to import duties, but for many manufacturers it was cheaper to import things as engines, transmissions, etc. and assemble cars in Canada with some Canadian-supplied parts. Thus GM, Chrysler, Ford, Studebaker, Durant and Willys were all building cars in Canada before the Depression hit.

In 1931 the Conservative government of Richard B. Bennett changed the rules to permit Canadian auto makers to deduct some of the Canadian value of the vehicle against the imported bits. Thus things like labour, paint, and Canadian-built parts could be applied as credit against import duties owed.

With that Hupp reopened their plant and Packard, Graham-Paige, Reo, Pierce-Arrow and Hudson began assembling cars in Canada. By 1936 Hupp, Willys, Durant, and Graham closed their Canadian plants.

For 1936, the Liberal government of William Lyon Mackenzie King (the nice man on Canada`s $50 bill) changed back to a flat import duty. Thus Studebaker closes their plant, followed by Packard in 1939 and Hudson by 1941. Reo continued to assemble trucks until 1953.

Thus began the era of `Canadianized` cars and trucks. Chrysler of Canada opened up an engine plant in 1938 and built 25-inch block flathead sixes for Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler cars. Eight cylinder Chryslers were now imported, as were low production body styles as convertibles, station wagons, utility sedans, etc.

GM also restricted body styles to sedans and coupes, as well as building only six cylinder models in Canada. Pontiacs began using Chevrolet engines and in 1938 a line of Pontiac models appear based on the Chevrolet but using a Pontiac front end. The Pontiac flathead six appeared again in 1941. Eight cylinder Pontiacs, Oldsmobiles, big Buicks, as well as LaSalle and Cadillac were all now imported.

Ford of Canada dropped the little 60-hp flathead V8 after one year and did not build the flathead six that appeared in the U.S. for 1941.

So, many parts were now supplied by Canadian firms, such as glass, trim, engine blocks, etc. And many parts were unique to Canada - brass distribution tubes on flathead sixes, side glass of tempered, not laminated, glass, cast instead of stamped parts.

The latter was done I suspect because making a mold to cast a low production part is cheaper than making stamping and shaping tools and dies. A mold can cast a part in one process, while many stamped pieces have to be cut out, shaped and then trimmed before they can be used.

Canadian production may need 15,000 centre grille bars as compared to American production needing 500,000 centre grille bars. It was necessary to cut production costs to match the production needed.

In 1936 Canadian Industries Limited, jointly controlled by DuPont of New Jersey and ICI of London, began manufacturing paints for cars and trucks. Before that CIL imported DuPont paints. And that is how and why CIL used DuPont paint codes up until DuPont separated from CIL in 1954.

The black-out models were mandated by the U.S. and Canadian governments to shift supplies of copper, nickel and chromium to the war effort from passenger cars. Chromed pieces used copper, nickel and chromium while stainless steel used chromium. The edicts took effect in late December, 1941.

Thus side trim was painted in a contrasting colour to the main body colour. Only things like door handles and bumpers could be chromed, although the plating was not what is was in 1940.

[Rusty O'Toole]

Largely a matter of cost. Ironically the cheap stamped trim on the low priced cars stands up better than the costly and complicated cast white metal on the high priced cars.