1930 Chrysler CJ build (UK)

[blucarsdn]

On the question about the fabric insert top on the '30 CJ... Mention has been lightly made that the auto manufacturing company's possibly did not have the ability to make all steel tops for their cars... In reality, DPCD, GM and Ford, to name just a few, did not have the facilities to stamp out a one piece steel 'turret top' until 1936 on the GM cars and '37 on the DPCD/Ford cars.

There also was a wide held belief by several of the manufactures, Ford being the most vocal about the subject, that an all steel body would cause ear damage to the occupants when the doors were closed with the windows rolled up.. In 1936 Ford came out with a big PR pitch to justify the 'rag' insert in their tops... GM had introduced the all steel 'turret top' on their 1936 models..

According to the info in the Standard Catalog of American Cars, the 1930 Chrysler CJ was an 'all-new downsized model bearing the Chrysler name'

The original engine was a six cylinder 195.6 CID with a three speed trans. The smaller engine 62. hp vs 65. hp which was the engine used in the model 66..

Edited May 2, 2012 by blucarsdn

[Niel Hoback]

One detail, GM had an all steel turret top in 1935.

Part of the reason that auto manufacturers didn't have big enough stamping tools is because the steel industry could not successfully roll light gauge steel wide enough to make a large panel.

Sign me, nit picker.

[dudford]

have you given any thought to using an aftermarket later V8 style gear reduction starter, these have a much smaller starter body, together with offset mounts and other features to allow them to fit in very small spaces, the trick is finding one with the correct throw and teeth number, etc ........as you are in pommy land there maybe not the same acces to US based V8 HiPo stuff but any competent shop that deals in US speed equipement should be able to have a listing........I'd start with Mopar V8 GR starters simply because the actual 2 hole mount looks the same as the later ones ..........anyway hope this helps......andyd

Thanks Andy, yes I believe you're onto something with the V8 starter notion. A few others have hinted at it. I've been a little disillusioned with the starter situation lately so I'll throw myself into some research. Can the bendix be switched to another starter body? What V8 starter would fit? Etc etc etc.

With regard to the roof, when restoring these cars do people restore the roof as was or has anyone welded in a new one. I know there are pitfalls repatching a large section but even so, would I be shunned if I did it?

Thanks!

[TodFitch]

With regard to the roof, when restoring these cars do people restore the roof as was or has anyone welded in a new one. I know there are pitfalls repatching a large section but even so, would I be shunned if I did it?

Thanks!

With respect to the roof, it is fairly common for street rodders to weld in a steel roof. For restoration work it would be looked down on. So I guess it depends on the crowd you are trying to fit into.

Since a folding canvas sunroof setup was available for some years and models in the UK when the cars were new, that might also be an interesting way to go that would be interesting and acceptable to both the restoration and street rodding crowds.

[dudford]

With respect to the roof, it is fairly common for street rodders to weld in a steel roof. For restoration work it would be looked down on. So I guess it depends on the crowd you are trying to fit into.

I look at it and i think the same as I think about a flat roof on a house, prone to leaks. Someone said to me at the very start when I first bought the car which has stuck in my mind: "text book definition of a hot rod is an old car with a non-stock engine" so I'm minded to customise some things on the car. I know that I dont like the idea of restoring to a concourse condition car, i think they look a bit fake, i like a little life to a car. Who knows, I'll get the engine running first and think on about as I go.

Since a folding canvas sunroof setup was available for some years and models in the UK when the cars were new, that might also be an interesting way to go that would be interesting and acceptable to both the restoration and street rodding crowds.

Anyone have any designs or photos of a folding canvas roof? I bet they wont be water tight!

Thanks for the info though chaps!

[Andydodge]

Dudfords....btw whats your name?.......lol.....I'm Andy Douglas btw.........anyway, I am a hotrodder........since 1970.........so I have this slant on it..........I'd either get the roof properly redone using new timber, chicken wire, hession,foam padding and a waterproof upholstery insert like it was originally or take it to a UK hot rod shop and get them to properly weld it up.......you can paint finish it or as I have seen done, get an upholsterer to make a fake roof piece and have the best of both worlds......no leaks and a fabric "insert".

As you can see I have had some experience with vinyl tops.......lol........my Dodge has had one since about 1975........reason back then was that whilst I was a reasonable panel beater.......note the 2' wider rear guardsfenders for the yanks reading this, I wasn't that good in getting dents outa large expanses of flat sheet metal, ie, a roof with 2 flat spots , so I got a vinyl top which was all the rage back then...........

As for the starter problem as I mentioned measure the size of the starter hole, bolt spacing etc and then contact or better still visit a shop that handles hotrod stuff in the UK, I'd be surprised if you couldn't find a gear reduction starter that will fit.........there are a couple of places here in Oz that will make up a starter to suit whatever you have a need for from different snouts, gear drives, bendixes, etc, etc......so i'm sure that there must be similar places in pommyville........lol..........regards, andyd

[dudford]

Hi Andy, my name's Dudley Palmer. I'm very green to hot rodding, does it show?

Aiming to learn as much as I can by doing as much as I can myself while utilising the School of Dad and some of his petrol head friends/engineers. I've played with engines since I can remember but body work/metal working is my new challenge to overcome.

With regard to the roof, patching it over may be beyond my abilities to get 100% right but I know a couple guys who I could ask for help before I shell out to a bodywork shop. Plus thats all the fun right?

Really want to splash out for some Edgy/Langdon/Edmunds components but I'll assess the finance once I get further into the project.

[greg g]

Most folks tend to shot gun projects, which leads to a lot of frustration and failed projects. My suggestion would be to get it up to snuff mechanically and safety related. I know you folks have to pass some pretty indepth safety inspection to get your cars highway certified, so addressing those concerns would be top of my list. A running, driving, reliable car that is a bit tattered looking is a lot more fun that a pretty one that sits in its shed.

The eye candy and speed stuff can come along as you are out and about. In fact stuff may find you, as did my dual carb set up and fined head. Was a a car show when a guy approached me as told me he had some stuff he wasn't going to use. Plus it put you in the loop of conversations and hints and rumors of stuff that go around the gear head comminuty.

This is probably even more so with a first effort in the hobby. Get it running and stopping and get out and about while you plan, and save and locate your goodies.

[drillmastertommy]

Hey Dudfords, do you want to send over some dimensions of the starter you have that doesn't fit and I'll compare them to the couple I have on the bench.

Earl 'EDGY' Edgertons stuff is lovely, I have his parts on my 218, head, intake valve covers, even if it didn't make a performance difference I'd still have it, it looks awesome!

[Andydodge]

Duds.........just decided to look at where you are........amazing........my daughter,Lisa is living in Hove at the moment with her partner, Tom Austin a lad from Crawley...........small world.........anyway heres a couple of pics of the vinyl topped Dodge.............say gidday to Lisa & Tom if you see them......lol..........andyd

[drillmastertommy]

Hey Andy, the world appears to get smaller every day! I have my atomic robots on display at an art open house in Hove all this month, was there all day today...

Suppose I ought to bring it back on topic though... Any progress with the starter Duds?

[dudford]

Hey Andy, the world appears to get smaller every day! I have my atomic robots on display at an art open house in Hove all this month, was there all day today...

Suppose I ought to bring it back on topic though... Any progress with the starter Duds?

I'll take a "Lucas(Legs)" please Tom, love the Chrysler data badge on it!

Anyway, back to the car... Getting into hot water at the moment with "Her Indoors" what with another baby on the way I should be buying bits for the new arrival not parts for the car. Yeah, yeah! So I'm letting the car take a backseat for one weekend while i build some lovely units for baby storage and buy a new pram to appease the gods... I mean the Mrs.

However I did sneak out there and snap a couple pics of the Chrysler to better explain the whole starter scenario. Its increasingly becoming clear what was done before I bought it.

From the picture below you'll see that the bellhouse is not simple. The original 1930 bellhouse includes the master cylinder as well as the mount to the chassis. This means that the location for mounting the starter has well and truly stitched me up.

And from below

What with inclusion of the mounts to the chassis thats going to make getting it a little more difficult than just replacing the bellhousing. With whats in place you can see, with a little more clarity, the proximity of the starter opening to the engine block below:

So my sloution... buy a 1953 Plymouth bellhouse from somewhere () and fabricate some mounts on it to fit it to the chassis. Anyone got a spare one lying about?

By the way, Thanks for the bellhouse plan you sent Kirk, greatly appreciated!

Thoughts? Ideas? Inspiration please boys and girls!!!

[Jerry Roberts]

" thoughts , ideas , inspiration ? " Someone , somewhere must have a starter for a 1930 Chrysler . Perhaps on some other forums ? Does anyone have a parts book to identify which other years and models will fit ? EDIT ; Ah , yes , the replacement starter probably doesn't fit because of the replacement engine block . Anyway , I too have seen photos of a starter that had the housing shaved off to fit an engine .

Edited May 6, 2012 by Jerry Roberts

[drillmastertommy]

Dudfords, Lucas sold yesterday I'm afraid! I'd suggest talking to Billy at North American Motor Co in Farnborough and see if he can point you toward a smaller starter, he really knows his stuff and if anyone over here can help it will be him.

Also might be worth searching out 'colind' on the RodsnSods forum and sending him a message re the replacement bell housing, he is the guy I bought both my spare starters from. He has pulled the flattie from his Dodge truck and put in a Transit diesel. Worth a shot?

[dudford]

" thoughts , ideas , inspiration ? " Someone , somewhere must have a starter for a 1930 Chrysler . Perhaps on some other forums ? Does anyone have a parts book to identify which other years and models will fit ? EDIT ; Ah , yes , the replacement starter probably doesn't fit because of the replacement engine block . Anyway , I too have seen photos of a starter that had the housing shaved off to fit an engine .

A 1930 starter is not the issue. Due to the original 1930 Chrysler engine blocks lacking a water jacket they placed the starter mount further round. Therefore with a P24 block having a water jacket the gap to fit a starter is considerably reduced. As such, an original starter will likely be of no use either. The only possibility in this setup would be a slimmer V8 type starter with the P24 starter dog machined on.

Dudfords, Lucas sold yesterday I'm afraid! I'd suggest talking to Billy at North American Motor Co in Farnborough and see if he can point you toward a smaller starter, he really knows his stuff and if anyone over here can help it will be him.

Also might be worth searching out 'colind' on the RodsnSods forum and sending him a message re the replacement bell housing, he is the guy I bought both my spare starters from. He has pulled the flattie from his Dodge truck and put in a Transit diesel. Worth a shot?

i will check out this colond shortly. In the meantime, this Billy, is he located in Farnborough in Kent or Hants? Thanks for the info Tommy, im glad your Atomic Robots has evidently gone well what with your mentioned sale of Lucas!

[Andydodge]

Duds........have a look on the Pilothouse trucks part of this forum.........the trucks have a bellhousing thats a very similar style to what the 1930 Chrysler had.........the car style bellhousing is a completely different animal as far as the mounts are concerned, although its possible the eraly thirtys car belhousing , say up to 35/36 might have been a similar style to the trucks and your one........am not sure here...........but the pickup truck bell housing is very similar...........your biggest problem is being in pommyville as this sort of stuff is as you've found out ....not easy to find to compare...........anyway...have a look at a pickup bell...........andyd

[Joe Flanagan]

You could also post your problem on the HAMB. Chances are good you'd find someone who at least has a bell housing. The HAMB is the online forum for Jalopy Journal. Google either one and you should find it.

[Young Ed]

Yes as Andy mentioned the pilot house trucks and the 39-47 trucks use a very similar frame mount system with the master cylinder bolted to the bellhousing along with a shaft for the pedals.

[Niel Hoback]

Looks good except the pedals are on the wrong side.

[Young Ed]

Looks good except the pedals are on the wrong side.

The rest of the truck is setup to be also RHD. I'd have to go look but I bet the pedals could and MC could be swapped to the other side. Or he's just got to find a guy over there with a spare one.

[dudford]

Yes as Andy mentioned the pilot house trucks and the 39-47 trucks use a very similar frame mount system with the master cylinder bolted to the bellhousing along with a shaft for the pedals.

Duds........have a look on the Pilothouse trucks part of this forum.........the trucks have a bellhousing thats a very similar style to what the 1930 Chrysler had.........the car style bellhousing is a completely different animal as far as the mounts are concerned, although its possible the eraly thirtys car belhousing , say up to 35/36 might have been a similar style to the trucks and your one........am not sure here...........but the pickup truck bell housing is very similar...........your biggest problem is being in pommyville as this sort of stuff is as you've found out ....not easy to find to compare...........anyway...have a look at a pickup bell...........andyd

Thanks Ed & Andy, great shout! I'd say you're definately on to something. I dont think I'd truly grasped the idea that alot of these components could be bolted to anything and everything from that time period (predictably with a bit "persuasion")

So I'll go on the hunt for a bellhouse, post up on Pilot House, the HAMB, RodsnSods etc. Anything I find in the US is gonna cripple me on shipping... Ahhhhh, the joys of owning yank motors in Rule Britannia

One thing I found yesterday, Im not sure but I'd say that with a P24 218 the flywheel looks to be about 15" in diameter (confirmed by hkestes) which I have but i wonder whether the original CJ engine had a smaller flywheel? Looking at the flywheel I have in the original bellhouse I'd say it appears to have only a gnats dick of room either side!

Thanks for the help chaps!

[drillmastertommy]

Hey Duds, northamericanmotorco.com 01252 515750 in Hampshire. Like I said, Billy will know the easiest way round this before having to change out the bellhousing.

[Young Ed]

So I'll go on the hunt for a bellhouse, post up on Pilot House, the HAMB, RodsnSods etc. Anything I find in the US is gonna cripple me on shipping... Ahhhhh, the joys of owning yank motors in Rule Britannia

Does Scottland help any? There's a very active truck guy who might have a bellhousing there.

[dudford]

Does Scottland help any? There's a very active truck guy who might have a bellhousing there.

Well its definately closer and the possibility to use Pallet Line to transport heavy items is available if anyone there has the part... Who is this mystery Scotsman?

[Young Ed]

Well its definately closer and the possibility to use Pallet Line to transport heavy items is available if anyone there has the part... Who is this mystery Scotsman?

I'll get you his email and PM it.