P15 in D24 clothes (need parts)

[chopped51]

Just joined yesterday. I've been building cars longer than I care to admit. I'm an old fart on the HAMB. I signed up here because I just picted up a 48' Dodge. From all the research I've done on this site it appears it's a 48 Plymouth with Dodge trim. Also it's registered as a 49' Interesting!

I picked it up because I can't stand to see an old car go to waste, or worse.... crushed. I think I got a pretty good deal on it. I checked it out after I dragged it home and was surprized (in a good way) it has no rust. None! Floors are still shinny paint as is the trunk. Solid rockers too.

Here's a few pictures of it. To bad the PO spraying it flat black. Does that make it a rat rod?

Looks like I need all the side trim and a grill. If you can help me out with these, send me a PM.

Thanks!

[Young Ed]

What you have there is a canadian model dodge d25. The grill and name badges are unique to it but I believe the side trim and rockers are the same as a p15 4dr.

[Plymouthy Adams]

at worst, I am thinking you can put the P15 grille insert and grille panels in if you have trouble with the D25 grille..I say this as the D25 is cast and chrome plated unlike the stainless D24 of US genre..some take a pretty heavy hit on corrosion and chrome pits...other items like the dash emblem, horn center and rear third light bezel is also distinct to the D25 along with headlight bezels and the lower hood medalion and mascot..good luck on the fining the parts...I have not seen any for quite some time..had one in my barn for a short time but the guys came back from Canada and picked it up..you find it on the way to the Artic Circle as I type this..

[Roadkingcoupe]

Although the Canadian Dodge "looks" like a US Dodge it is based on a Plymouth body with "specialized" parts. In other words it is a "PLODGE" (personally I dont like the term) that was created to fill a void in the Canadian showrooms. It differs from a Plymouth as it has the longer 25" motor, which sits in a Plymouth body with unique to a D25 ONLY trim.

In other words "most" of the body is a Plymouth.

The engine is from the bigger Chrysler vehicles.

The trim is unique to the D25.

If one wanted to convert it to a Plymouth front end....it is doable.

Although the grill looks like a US car it is different, as they had to make it fit the Plymouth Body.

If the fender stops before the door it is a Canuck Plymouth bodied Plodge.

The moldings are different, if you want more info PM me.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Roadkingcoupe

[RobertKB]

Definitey a Canadian Dodge D25. I have included pictures of my '48 Dodge D25 Coupe so you get a good idea as to what the trim looks like. I had a bunch of trim parts but recently sold them on ebay. All stainless trim spears are same as the Plymouth as is the rocker trim. Hood ornament, grille, hood nose Dodge piece ( see you have that), brake light bezel, parking lights are all unique to the D25. Dash is the same as the Plymouth except for the centre horn button, and name plate above the speaker grille. Rear bumper curves further around that on the Plymouth and has slightly different brackets. Front bumper is the same. I do have a decent horn centre if you need one. Nothing is cheap when it comes to trim for the D25 as parts cars, even here in Canada, are becoming very hard to find as well as parts at swap meets. Hope this helps.

Edited March 20, 2012 by RobertKB

[Roadkingcoupe]

Plodge is the informal name given to products of the Chrysler Corporation, sold in Canada and export markets, a portmanteau of the names Plymouth and Dodge. These vehicles used portions of Plymouth and Dodge brand automobiles together, to make unique cars for the Canadian market and export markets. These vehicles were sold under either the Dodge nameplate at Dodge dealers and the Plymouth nameplate at Plymouth dealers. Doing so allowed dealers in Canada to offer a wider array of vehicles despite having a smaller market share.

The practice of melding cars into a unique automobile for the Canadian market was due to Canadian trade rules designed to protect Canadian industry. The McLaughlin-Buick was an early example of Buick production that was licensed to the McLaughlin concern in Canada. In 1918, General Motors purchased McLaughlin Motors and formed General Motors of Canada Limited.

In the case of Chrysler's efforts in Canada, Dodge and Plymouth marques shared parts, even whole cars, with one and other. This allowed a Plymouth with a Dodge grille and taillights to become a Dodge without the expense of tooling a vehicle for the market. On the Dodge Dart introduced in 1960, only the interiors were shared — Canadian-market 1960-61 Darts had Plymouth dashboards. The 1965 to 1966 Dodge Monaco used a Dodge body, with a Plymouth Fury dashboard and interior trim.

"Plodges" were also built in Detroit for markets outside of North America. Unlike the Canadian operation, the American export "Plodges" were built in all body styles. The first American-built export "Plodge" was built in the U.S. for the 1935 model year. Two years later, the American firm began building "Plysotos", Plymouths with DeSoto-like grilles for export. The Canadian operation began building these export cars in 1939.

The export Dodge Diplomat was never sold in Canada, with the Canadian DeSoto being just like the American original. The Canadian 1960 DeSoto Adventurer looked like the American 1960 DeSoto but used the upholstery and door panels from the 1960 Chrysler Saratoga. It was not a Dodge Polara with a DeSoto nameplate as the 1960 Dodge Polara was sold in Canada right beside the DeSoto at Dodge-DeSoto dealers.

Chrysler continued building these types of badge-engineered vehicles, usually for export markets.

[Plymouthy Adams]

this thread agains confuses things so I looked into the past through a forum search and found B Watson's info on the D25 and the use of the 23 inch block for reference, see post 8

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=27681

[Roadkingcoupe]

Bill Watson is the resident expert on the subject.

It appears that there were both US built D25's (for export) and Canadian built D25's for Domestic use (possibly export) as well.

All Canadian built vehicles after 1938 (including Plymouth) used the longer 25" block from the newly Built Windsor engine plant.

US built D25 vehicles must have used the shorter 23" block.

What can get really confusing is the "accomodation" to fit the longer block in a Plymouth body. The rad sat 2" further ahead.

If interested I can provide the different part #'s that show the "conversion".

Edited March 20, 2012 by Roadkingcoupe

[Rusty O'Toole]

One place you are in luck, or not, depending how you look at it, is the engine. Canadian Dodge and Plymouth used a version of the American DeSoto/Chrysler six, suitably detuned.

Where the Detroit built Plymouth had its 217 engine the Canadian Plymouth used a 3 3/8 bore, 4 1/16 stroke 218 cu in engine based on the bigger Chrysler six.

This means a) if you buy parts for an American Plymouth engine they won't fit if you want more power the 251 or 265 cu in Chrysler engine will drop right in.

Your existing block can be bored to 3 7/16 (standard Chrysler size) or larger and the long stroke crankshaft and rods from the Chrysler engine fit right in. So you could build quite a big engine (up to 283 cu in with a 3 9/16 bore and 4 3/4 stroke crank from a 52-54 Chrysler Windsor) and keep the original "numbers matching" block. Go out and surprise a few Ford flathead owners lol.

[RobertKB]

this thread agains confuses things so I looked into the past through a forum search and found B Watson's info on the D25 and the use of the 23 inch block for reference, see post 8

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=27681

Good to point that out, Tim.

To determine if is was the Canadian built D25, measure your engine. If it's 25" it is a Canadian car. If 23", it was a US built D25 for the export market that never made it overseas. The D25 trim should be same no matter where the car was built. Let us know what you find regarding engine length.

[chopped51]

Thanks for the fantastic responce guys! Great info here for sure!

Here's some crappy cell phone pictures of the dash.

Sounds like it would be a real time consuming and tedious job to return this car to factory correct trim. Good thing I'm not doing that! I'm a total novice regarding these old Dodges (I'm here to learn) but have built more car for more years than I care to admit, so I have a pretty good idea what I'm getting in to.

The car was pretty well stripped.... BUT almost all the parts where either in the trunk or in the car. I want to build this to be a "daily driver" and want to put as much trim on it as I can so it looks respectable, be it Dodge, Plymouth or Plodge trim.

I need a complete grill and trim, and all the side chrome (belt line and rockers. And a hood ornament. I think pretty much everything else is there. I have all the lights and markers even the spare and the jack.

[TodFitch]

... The first American-built export "Plodge" was built in the U.S. for the 1935 model year. Two years later, the American firm began building "Plysotos", Plymouths with DeSoto-like grilles for export. The Canadian operation began building these export cars in 1939..

Chrysler was exporting quite early and when they created the Plymouth brand in the US they exported it often using a different name. For example your 1933 Chrysler Kew 6 purchased in England was a US Plymouth with right hand drive, a small bore engine and locally fitted interior.

[BobT-47P15]

I see it still has the Dodge horn center button.

That's probably your best simple indication it's a Dodge.

You can find most all of the trim on ebay.

Also watch the classified ads...parts for sale....on this forum as

well as on the H.A.M.B. On the HAMB, you can put in a search

for Plymouth.

The part about it being a 1949 model is probably right.....as they

continued making the 1946-48 body style thru March of 1949. That

group of cars is titled as a 49. A couple years ago I bought a 49

Plymouth coupe......it uses all the same pieces as the other 3 years.

You can find the longer engine in Chryslers and DeSotos of the U.S.

The U.S. Dodges use the same shorter block as Plymouth.

Good luck on your project. Keep us posted.

[Robert Horne]

My Dodge is registered as a 1949 also, but has the 48 body style

I believe it depends on what part of the year the car was produced.

[Roadkingcoupe]

Early 1949's were known as "First Series" and were based on the previous 1946-1948 models. The rollout for the "NEW" style 1949 models were later in the year.

[chopped51]

Robert Horne, yours looks great. I have a visor for mine as well.

So the million dollor question is...... which grill am I looking for to fit my car? 46 - 48, Dodge or Plymouth? I'm not so concerned about being "correct" I just need it to fit.

Anybody?

[Plymouthy Adams]

your call...what you first come across will probably be the deciding factor...the D25 grille as I said earlier is cast and may be pitted badly if found..Canadian area probably your best bet to find one...the P15 is stainless but the backing panel are often a bit on the poor side at lower edge....they rust here badly..lots of times the P15 stainless trim will need some repair as the mounts are sttel and often the studs are broken off and will require repair..Remember also that if you go with the D25 grille, you have to find the matching headlight doors..this may be tricky also..

[Niel Hoback]

P-15 parking lights won't fit your fenders.

[BobT-47P15]

Well, if you decide to go with a Plymouth grille, etc.....you might also

get Plymouth front fenders with the smaller opening for the parking

lights.

[Roadkingcoupe]

In order to avoid confusion please provide the vin # for accuracy. Here is just a sample of what you are up against when it comes to mix and matching the P15 - D25 - D24 parts. I would be happy to help in the direction of the project. (check your email).

Parts book reads.....

Front Fenders

P15 1065888 & 9

D25 1154662 & 3

Grill

D24 1148427 (one piece)

D25 1149210 & 11

Hood

D24 1148100 & 1 (two piece)

D25 1158822 (one piece)

P15 1158822 (bonus!)

Hood Ornament

D24 1158552

D25 972678 (Plodge only)

Parking lamp lens retainer

D24 1154374 (same right and left)

D25 1161175 & 6

P15 1161420 (same right and left)

[Plymouthy Adams]

P-15 parking lights won't fit your fenders.

true that..but..its just a simple snip clip and weld to use the P15..just how willing is this guy to get the grille complete that will be the ultimate answer..

[chopped51]

I think Tim is right. It's what I come across first. I build custom cars and traditional hot rods from little more than rusted hulks. Adapting a grill and/or park lights wil be a comparitive breeze.

Bottom line is I will not spend a ton-O-dough to build it. Even is I spend 5 years and $30,000 restoring it to concours condition it will only be worth $5,000.

I'm building this for myself. As I said earlier, I will make it a daily driver. That will include a newer rear. Disk brakes and a small block (318) I would like to put as much "original looking" trim on it as I can.

[BobT-47P15]

Maybe a 47 Olds grille................

[chopped51]

Maybe a 47 Olds grille................

I agree, it would look cool. If somebody gave me one, I'd consider it. Still a lot of fab work to make it look good. It's a mordoor and not worth my time to get in to extensive customizing. I don't think anyone is going to give me a 47' Olds grill, so the search continues.

[BobT-47P15]

Just a thought that occurred about the Olds item.

When you find a suitable grille, I'd be interested to see what

it is......