Getting the Seized Engine Free/Moving Thread

[55 Fargo]

Okay this is a sequel to the 53 Plymouth Engines? thread by 53 Cranny , as that thread is getting to be quite long, and may have drifted off topic to the original Poster.

So today have no ATF at my disposal, so have the cyls soaking in WD 40, which I do not have much faith in, but will let it soak.

I have tryed a 30 inch long pry bar in the ring gear, but the crank will not budge, at least not yet.

I have the cam and valves moving freely, 1 #3 cyl valve is a bear, and is still somewhat stuck.

This engine, is quite clean inside, the water jackets were rusty, maybe the use of well water, not sure, the water tube is not out yet, all freeze plugs are brass, as is the water dist tube, quality rebuilt engine in 1956 using the Chrysler Method, all bearing standard, pistons/rings .30 over.

Here is the You Tube link to me pulling the timing cover and chain

Edited September 16, 2011 by Rockwood

[Young Ed]

Fred you're gonna have to go buy a quart or two. Otherwise here we can get Liquid Wrench in a gallon can. If you can find that you can poor a bunch of that in each. Typically the ones that dont allow the oil to pass by are the ones that are stuck. Should go without saying but make sure you change the oil to get all this stuff out of the pan before any attempts at starting.

[55 Fargo]

Fred you're gonna have to go buy a quart or two. Otherwise here we can get Liquid Wrench in a gallon can. If you can find that you can poor a bunch of that in each. Typically the ones that dont allow the oil to pass by are the ones that are stuck. Should go without saying but make sure you change the oil to get all this stuff out of the pan before any attempts at starting.

Hi Ed, yes we have Liquid Wrench, WD 40 and others by the gallon.

I do recall there were 2 cylinders that would not let oil pass through last time I filled them up.

My plan if possible, free up the pistons, but clean up engine, at the least do rings and valve, or if I have to total overhaul, this engine is destined for my Chrysler, so want it to be in good shape......

[RobertKB]

Fred, I believe some of the timing cover bolts go into the water jacket and have special (lead?) washers to stop any seepage when coolant is added. There have been some threads about this in the past and it is important to put the right bolts back in the right holes. Hopefully you kept track.

If I remember correctly I believe Normspeed, once a very prolific poster and super nice guy, had that problem and solved it with forum support. As an aside, I still contact Norm occasionally and he is doing well.

[Rusty O'Toole]

My suggestion, turn the engine over remove the pan and take out the crankshaft. Be careful not to mix up the rod caps and main caps, put them back on when the crankshaft is out.

Then try pounding the pistons down with a wooden drift. If this does not work, see if you can put the head back on and use a hydraulic pump. You have to fill the space completely with oil, any air space will compress and spoil the effect.

If you do not have a hand pump a grease gun will work.

Do not underestimate the power of a grease gun. They will put out a thousand PSI thanks to leverage. As the top of the piston is almost 9 square inches that means 9000 pounds of pressure.

Once you push the piston down clean the cylinder and push the piston up and out. If there is a ridge you will have to remove it with a ridge reamer or the rings will hang up.

It should not come to using the hydraulic pressure.

Once the pistons are out you can clean the rust off the cylinders and hone them.

Do not worry about a few rust pits if they are not too large. I know an old timer who rebuilt a truck engine that had been left outside for 2 or 3 years with the head off. The cylinders were badly pitted but he put the engine back together with new rings after honing the cylinders. He had no choice, this was during WW2 when parts were hard to get and new trucks impossible.

He said the engine burned a little oil but after 1000 miles or so it settled down and ran perfect with no oil burning. A few years later he took the head off to do a valve job, he said the cylinders were polished smooth as a mirror but you could still see the rust pits, completely filled with hard carbon.

[Young Ed]

Dad and I had a beater 50 plymouth that we put rings in. One cylinder was full or rust pits. We experienced the same thing. Ran great smoked a little when you first drove it but seemed to stop when the engine got warm.

[Merle Coggins]

That's pretty much how I had to get my engine apart. Pulled the crank out and used a chunk of 4x4 and BFH to drive the pistons down some. Then I used a wire brush and flapper wheel sanding drum on a die grinder to clean up the cylinder walls. After that I could drive the pistons out. I think I used a piece of 2x4 against the rod, with the cap off, to hit against. I honed the cylinders and had a lot of pitting so I took it to a machine shop and he was able to clean them up with a ".030 over bore. I considered leaving it as it was but it needed other machining work too.

My valves were also stuck badly. I had to use a large channel lock pliers on the cam sprocket to rock the cam back and forth until I could get all of the valves fully open. Then I could remove the cam and tappets. Then I tapped all of the valves closed, removed the springs, and used a long punch from the bottom to drive the valves out. I had to get all new guides and seats put in because it was all rusted so badly. It runs like a champ now though.

Merle

[Rusty O'Toole]

Merle your engine sounds like an extreme case. No doubt when it is that bad the only solution is to rebore and do a complete rebuild.

I believe Rockwoods engine was rebuilt not too many miles ago. If the pistons were tight in the cylinders, not worn, then a little rust would make them stick. So, if there is only a little rust it might clean up OK.

[55 Fargo]

Cyls are filled with pentrating oil. I have a BF wrench on the crank pulley nut, am able to jar it back and forth, some pistons, moving slightly.

The darn water tube I have not been able to get out yet, still working on it....

[55 Fargo]

I am using a BF wrench on the front pulley crank nut(interestingly it has the connection for a hand crank), I have some slight movement.

I have the cyls soaking in ATF, will give it some time, then will post on here if successful......

[RobertKB]

I am using a BF wrench on the front pulley crank nut(interestingly it has the connection for a hand crank), I have some slight movement.

I have the cyls soaking in ATF, will give it some time, then will post on here if successful......

If you have some movement, things are looking good. It means all six pistons are moving and with some more time, it should turn over completely.

[55 Fargo]

If you have some movement, things are looking good. It means all six pistons are moving and with some more time, it should turn over completely.

Maybe, used some cheap CT penetrating oil first, but then filled cyls with ATF.

I will see what things are like tomorrow, I may place a load on the pulley nut, so that there is some continuous tension against it.

I am not consdering to use this engine as is, but want to try and have pistons moving freely before dismantling engine. If I can just do the valves and rings, I might, but if it requires boring new pistons etc, so be it, that will be a slow project, and I hope my little 218 will be good for a few more years.

[55 Fargo]

Is ATF thin enough to penetrate along sdie the pistons and rings to free up the rust?

[Dodgeb4ya]

Fred,

Diesel fuel is a excellent penetrant too.

[53cranny]

I'm glad my post took the turn it did and lead way to this great discussion, I know I'll be using this information when I get at my engine!

Kerry

[55 Fargo]

Just checked out my engine it is 7:30 AM, only #1 cyl allowed the ATF to pass through, the rest have the ATF sitting on top of each piston, telling me they must be all stuck, so not a good sign.

I will let them soak to see what happens

[JerseyHarold]

Good luck. Years ago I had a '51 Cranbrook with a seized engine and all six pistons were stuck.

[55 Fargo]

Good luck. Years ago I had a '51 Cranbrook with a seized engine and all six pistons were stuck.

well it's only been overnight that it has been soaking, and the cylinders aren't looking too bad, will see if the ATF can soak through.

If this engine was tight to begin with, that could be the reason....

[RobertKB]

Fred, some of the guys in my car club also belong to a tractor club and have worked on stuck engines in tractors. They put ATF or diesel fuel in the cylinders and walk away for at least a month, sometimes much longer. They generally have success in the end. You may still end up pulling the crank and using a big chunk of wood and a BFH. Having soaked for a long time will help that process if required though. It can be a long process. Patience is a virtue.

[55 Fargo]

Fred, some of the guys in my car club also belong to a tractor club and have worked on stuck engines in tractors. They put ATF or diesel fuel in the cylinders and walk away for at least a month, sometimes much longer. They generally have success in the end. You may still end up pulling the crank and using a big chunk of wood and a BFH. Having soaked for a long time will help that process if required though. It can be a long process. Patience is a virtue.

Hi Rob, I agree, and there is no rush on my part. I will continue to monitor, going to move the engine inside.

Once free, if possible, will tear down, and see what I have.

I am going to try and get some cylinder measurements, and see how much wear, I don't think there is all that much over the .030 it was bored in the rebuild....

[Don Coatney]

At some point the engine I currently have in my car was stuck due to rusted pistons. I bought the engine fully disassembled. Who ever did the disassembly used a BFH to smash and break the pistons into chunks small enough to remove. I know this as one piston chunk was still connected to a rod in my basket full of parts. A .030" oversize bore fixed the block and new pistons have given me more than 40,000 miles of steering wheel time. So quit messing around and spending wasted money on magic solvents. Smash the pistons and be done with it as the stuck ones are not going to be salvagable anyway. Get on with it.

[55 Fargo]

Hey Don, I think the condition of my engine , compared to the mess in yours:rolleyes: is quite different.

Mine is sludge free:cool:, and the cyls look not bad.

Now I may be able to save and re-use these pistons, why in the world do I want to smash the pistons free:confused:.

I suggest if you do not like my ideas, or thread you buy me a rebuilt ready to drop in engine:D

[Don Coatney]

Hey Don, I think the condition of my engine , compared to the mess in yours:rolleyes: is quite different.

Mine is sludge free:cool:, and the cyls look not bad.

Now I may be able to save and re-use these pistons, why in the world do I want to smash the pistons free:confused:.

I suggest if you do not like my ideas, or thread you buy me a rebuilt ready to drop in engine:D

I assumed that you wanted opinions when you posted this thread. I gave you my opinion. Do with your project as you see fit.

[55 Fargo]

I assumed that you wanted opinions when you posted this thread. I gave you my opinion. Do with your project as you see fit.

Well sure I want opinions, but they are just that, and can be beneficial too, and I am not saying you are wrong.

The focus of this thread, is to discover, whether this stuck engine can be unseized by chemical treatments, soaking and some time.

If it works; fine, if not okay, but the cyls will be good and lubed up, so when I pull the crank, and bang out the pistons, it may slide them out easier.

I am certainly in no rush, and am will to take time to see if it works, if not so be it.

I could easily turn this engine over, pull the pan, and remove the crank, and pound out the pistons.

I am willing to wait and see, if it fails, so what, will take the brutal approach.

I also have about 7000 miles in the last 3 years behind the wheel, with a 218, that is tired, and history totally unknown, as far as miles or any internal work.

The last thing I want is a thread that becomes sidetracked in contention....

[Rusty O'Toole]

Rockwood it's all according to how bad the engine is. If it was recently rebuilt before being laid up then a small amount of rust would seize the pistons. They should come loose fairly easily without waiting for a month.

If you can get them out without damaging them, and the cylinders are not too bad, you can reuse them. If not you are looking at a bore job and new pistons.

How long you wait won't make much difference. The cylinders are either ruined or they aren't. If they are, smashing the pistons will be necessary but it won't make any diff because the cylinders need to be bored anyway.

If the pistons come out in 1 piece then there is a chance the cylinders will clean up.

I think that is all Don was trying to get at.