55 Fargo Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 no doubt Fred...It would be good if there was a guy or two that lived near enough to go over and help check everything in person. You got that right, sure wished I had a few of you Guys like yourself nearby, for my occasional problems with the ole girl. Just gettin out and talkin old cars would be great. Lots of good Guys in the area, but most only know 1 word SBC or SBF.....................LOL Quote
JoelOkie Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 You got that right, sure wished I had a few of you Guys like yourself nearby, for my occasional problems with the ole girl. Just gettin out and talkin old cars would be great.Lots of good Guys in the area, but most only know 1 word SBC or SBF.....................LOL Looks to me like you do pretty good about keeping your car rolling there Fred. Nice to have guys near enough to hang with, though, and borrow tools from Quote
Alshere59 Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Fred True the engine temps rising at shut off etc are completely normal. That is kind of my point. If the normal temperature rises and his symptoms showing up coincide then it would seem like it would be worth a look. Many run 180 thermostats (myself included) if it is running a bit hot, then like you said things start to happen at 200. Especially if you have a ethanol blend of gas in the tank as it will be more susceptible to heat problems. Al Edited July 28, 2011 by Alshere59 Quote
58prostreet Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 Might sound stupid, but if u think it is under hood temp. causing problem, why not pull the hood off and see if problem persists? Not that hard to do. Just a thought. Bob Quote
Joe Flanagan Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 A worn cam lobe would produce the same results hot or cold. I believe the complaint was about hot operation? Correct. Quote
Don Coatney Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 I have had severe under hood temperatures but never has my engine stopped running nor has it failed to start-up when hot. Below is a very hot example from earlier this year on my drive to Tim Adams stable. I do not have a heat sheild on my fuel pump and I am using an electric pusher fan only. No belt driven fan. I also have a mechanical fuel pump only. So there must be something strange going on with Ron's Desoto. Have you checked your distributor advance and what is it set to? I am running around 2 degrees advance on my engine. I got stuck in a gridlock near Macon Bacon, Georgia on the way to Tims this morning. Parked in this gridlock for over a half hour. It is normal for my car to gain a lot of engine temperature when I have been driving at freeway speed for an extended period of time and suddenly drop the speed to zero. Also normal for my electric fan to kick on and drop that temperature after a few moments. However in this case I went from freeway speed to zero in a plymosecond. Fan kicked on but temperature continued to slowely climb as there was no wind other than that produced by the electric fan. No place to go, no way to pull off to the shoulder as there was traffic all around me, so I sat there and watched my temperature gauge climb to around 230F. I used the throttle cable to drive the idle speed up to around 1200RPM in order to circulate more coolant but this did not help much. Never boiled over. After an eternity got clear of the gridlock and back up to speed. Temperature dropped to 180 in less than a mile and my thermostatically controlled fan dropped off. Engine continues to run great so I dont think any damage was done. Quote
Jim Saraceno Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 The coil would be considers but after the engine is hot there is no gas in the carb or fuel line from the pump. The pump bowl is full but it won't pump to the carb when hot. When it's cool it will fire and run, no problem. I did the fuel volume test but the first test was when it was hot and nothing. I let it sit for a while and tested again. This time maybe an ounce or so in 12 strokes. Then waited a while longer and pumped about 6 ounces. From these two statements, it tells us that fuel is flowing when it is cold but not when it is hot. I agree with Don that it is unlikely a problem with vapor lock simply because while the fuel is flowing there is little likelihood that it can get to temps that would make it boil. Vapor usually happens once the engine is shut off, the gas is sitting still, and the engine compartment heats up (due to lack of airflow). If you think it is temperature related, take a spray bottle and spray the fuel pump and lines to cool things down. That should clear things up. It may have nothing to do with the temperature, it may be a restriction that gets worse the longer the engine runs. Most people don't have a long rubber fuel line. Could that be a problem? Again, until you do those three fuel pump tests, you'll never know if the lack of fuel is in the pump or the lines. I had a similar problem one time. It ended up being a line that started rusting out from the inside. The rust clogged up the screen on the fuel pump plus it got bad enough that I'm sure it was sucking air at the same time. The difference is at first it would run fine at idle but run rough under load but it kept getting worse and worse. Letting things cool off never fixed the problem. This is surely a head scratch-er. Good luck! Quote
JoelOkie Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 A worn cam lobe would produce the same results hot or cold. I believe the complaint was about hot operation? That's kinda where I am at on this too. To me, if the fuel pump shows to be working at all, (which is easy to find out by cranking the engine with the pump to carb line undone), and which would seem to be the case as the car starts and runs until it gets hot, (and it would not do that if the fuel pump wasn't working, as it might work well enough to start the engine, but it would stumble or fail on acceleration if it was bad, and that would happen at ANY temperature), and so when the car reaches higher temperature it stutters, cuts out, or dies, and fails to, or has hard starts, it is a carburetor (or as has been mentioned earlier, a dead coil) issue. If when it happens there is no gas in the carburetor then there is the obvious answer. I do know there has to be a logical way/sequence to troubleshoot what is happening so that a process of elimination will eventually get to the problem,if it is in the fuel delivery to the engine. If the fuel line and connections is suspect you take a piece of rubber line without any joints all the way from the tank to the pump. That test the fuel line. The ways to test a fuel pump has already been stated. If it's working, it will be putting out at least the minimal amount of what it is expected to do, and if it's not it takes a new one. If the new one doesn't work any better, then internal contact point/cam lobe wearout becomes obvious. But, as has been pointed out, if it is worn it will be worn all the time, not just when the engines gets hotter. If you do get fuel to and past the fuel pump you are looking in the carburetor for the source of the problem. It is the last stop along the way to getting the gas in to where it gets ignited, so if it's in good working order you have an ignition issue. I know all of these things have already been pointed out, but it might be good to make a list and put it on paper and just (literally) go down the line. Quote
busycoupe Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 My car had a slight leak in the fuel line from the tank. If the engine sat for a few hours or less it would start from the gas in the bowl and then run ok. If it sat longer the gas in the bowl wouldn't last long enough for the pump to draw gas back through the line. The leak was a slight corroded area on the top of the line where it goes over the rear wheel arch. It didn't leak when the car was parked because the leak was above the gas in the tank. The problem was much less noticeable when the tank was full because the pump would not have to pull as much vacuum to get the gas from the tank to flow through the small bubble of air at the top of the arch. I guess my advice is to check the fuel line for leaks. Even a small bubble of air in the line will make the mechanical pump fail to draw fuel from the tank. Dave Quote
Joe Flanagan Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 That's why I like Joel's idea of running a temporary rubber gas line from the tank to the pump. Seems to me that would tell you a lot. Quote
greg g Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 Ok, did you check the flow with the line to the carb disconnected??? What were the results??? Do you know what your fuel line pressure is between the pump and carb? Should be in the 5 to 7 lb area. You said you rebuilt the carb. did the new needle and seat exactly match the one that came out? Some of the new ones (new to you but who knows when they were made) have a needle with a rubber seal. If it's old rubber, then that might be suffering from ethanol and getting gummy. This would hold the needle closed and shut off the fuel flow. But first you need to establish if your pump is delivering the proper flow and pressure. I don't see were you mentioned these in your updates. You can also do the checks both before start up, and after the engine gets hot. Then and only then can you eliminate the pumps as the source of the problem. If flow and pressure are normal both cold and hot, the fault if it is fuel related is in the carburetor, and the first item that needs to pass muster is the needle and seat. If the needle and seat are clear clean and functioning, then the next item is the float. Is it intact, with no holes and or leaks, is the fulcrum pin in the correct position, and the spring clip holding it in place correctly. does it freely move through its arc, and is the level correct or slightly lower (which I firmly believe is necessary with todays ecxuse for gasoline) ? Is the accelerator pump functionig properly? Which hole do you have the linkage in? Is your intermediate power valve moving freely against its spring? Is its path to its vacuum signal free and clear? If all those things check out, then fuel should be able to be eliminated as the cause of your symptoms. But you must assure you are getting proper flow and pressure throughout the engine's operating temperature range. This crap can be frustrating, but you gotta do the procedures. What type of fuel pump are we dealing with, one with a glass sediment bowl, the one with out, or the dual chamber that provides vacuum for the wipers?? Quote
meadowbrook Posted August 16, 2011 Report Posted August 16, 2011 Hi folks. My 50 Meadowbrook will occasionally exhibit vapor lock symptoms if I am in slow, stop and go traffic. It will basically stall and be able to be started after 10 minutes. It cranks fine, just acts like there is no fuel. As I understand, a vapor lock condition usually happens before the fuel pump, correct? So the fact that the fuel line comes closest to the exhaust manifold AFTER the fuel pump should not be the problem right? Are there any recommendations for a 6 volt electric inline fuel pump I could place right after the gas tank to help when I have this problem? I could just place a switch to activate it if I get the vapor lock problem. Maybe even a 12 volt pump would work to provide the little 'push' I would need during a vapor lock condition? Thoughts? Quote
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