Engine rebuild

[Don Jordan]

I bought a car that had been sitting for a while. It ran so I bought it. Took a compression test and it was low. Little bit of smoke and had to go to 2nd to get up hill. So I figured I'd have it rebuilt. I just got a call from the machine shop. He said the cylinders were tapered (which I don't fully understand). He said it would have to be bored out .080 over and the crank had to be turned .040. He's talking about new pistons, rings, valves, crank, bearings - the whole thing. His price quote was $2300. I'm not sure what to do. If I was to buy a new engine I'm not sure what I'd be getting and would probably have to go through it anyway. Of course once it has been rebuilt then I'd know what I have. It's just more money than I was expecting.

any advice?

[DLK]

I bought a car that had been sitting for a while. It ran so I bought it. Took a compression test and it was low. Little bit of smoke and had to go to 2nd to get up hill. So I figured I'd have it rebuilt. I just got a call from the machine shop. He said the cylinders were tapered (which I don't fully understand). He said it would have to be bored out .080 over and the crank had to be turned .040. He's talking about new pistons, rings, valves, crank, bearings - the whole thing. His price quote was $2300. I'm not sure what to do. If I was to buy a new engine I'm not sure what I'd be getting and would probably have to go through it anyway. Of course once it has been rebuilt then I'd know what I have. It's just more money than I was expecting.

any advice?

Facing a similar decision someday I will be interested to hear what others say. That doesn't sound out of line to me if it truly needs all that work.

[Young Ed]

.080 and .040 sounds really extreme for an engine that was running unless its been rebuilt once or twice already. I think I'd be getting a second opinion.

[greg g]

cylinders become tapered as combustion forces push the pistons to one side of the wrist pin as well as down. As this force diminishes as the piston travels down the cylinder, so does the force and the wear it excerts. So the wear will be more pronounced at the top of the cylinder and taper down to the bottom of the stroke.

If the gentleman is quoting machinework, parts and labor, and you are getting back a ready to install and run engine, that price doesn't seem too bad. I paid less a few years back but I got a reassembled short block and I finished the reassembly and install.

As Ed says, .080 is pretty close to the maximum overbore. You might want to ask him about the posibility of boring and sleeving back to standard, or one of the more common over bores, Typically, .010, .020, and .030.

I might search for another crank rather than going .040 on the bearings. But then you never really know what your getting unless you get an NOS one from some one like Vintage Power Wagon.

That said if you are planning this to be a light / ocasional use vehicle, and engine done as he suggests might well last for a long time. It would probably never be rebuildable again, if that is much of a concern.

[Jim Saraceno]

I agree with Ed. I've never heard of .080" over pistons. I thought they would have to re-sleeve the cylinders at that point.

Pistons, rings and bearings would be a normal part of rebuilding and engine. Valves, maybe. Crank? You wouldn't mill the crank then replace it so that doesn't make sense.

$2300 for all that work doesn't sound unreasonable.

Like Ed said, get a second opinion just to be safe.

[Young Ed]

It would probably never be rebuildable again, if that is much of a concern.

It could always be sleeved next time. They can even spray weld and remachine the crank back to standard too. All it takes is $. FYI my shop gets $100 a hole for sleeves. That adds up quick.

[Joe Flanagan]

I agree that $2300 for the job doesn't sound unreasonable. But I believe you should not go over .030 on the crank main journals. Was he referring to the main journals or the rod journals? I seem to recall that the guys at Vintage Power Wagons said that grinding over .030 on the mains was not advisable. They have rebuilt flatheads for sale. You might want to see what they've got in stock and part out the one you've got to help offset the cost.

[Don Jordan]

Thank you for your input. I am on vacation up in Yellowstone Park. Just my luck it is raining. But with the modern conveniences I was able to speak to the machinest, go on line and share with you, and think about this before I get home and make a decision.

The guy at the machine shop said the engine had been rebuilt once and had been mistreated that's why he suggested .080 over. At my age I don't think I'll be able to wear it out. I've already had the trans gone through. I guess I'll do it so it will be paid for before I retire.

Thank you gentlemen, all for your comments and opinions.

[suntennis]

When my engine was rebuilt, it cost about $1550.00 to clean, machine and assemble. All the parts I obtained thru Roberts and Burnbaum which included pistons and the cost was around $400.00. You may cut some cost by checking parts costs from builder and what you can buy youself. Get other estimates that are itemized.

[martybose]

When I bought the engine out of a 1950 Dodge that had been sitting in a yard for almost 20 years I was surprised that it was already a very worn out 0.060" over rebuild. I was able to find some 0.080" over cast pistons, but decided to go a different route (as I have with many aspects of this car). I found a set of modern rings that were metric Toyota but worked out at 0.072" over, then sent the rings and a stock piston to Venolia and had them make a set of forged pistons. Then my machinist made up a honing plate for a 230, machined the block for the pistons, and I've had the short block together ever since.

Marty

[james curl]

At one time Jim Terrell at Terrel Machine told me he had on had a set of .090 oversize pistons and rings. I wanted .060 oversize which he did not have so settled on .040 which I bought before taking all of the parts to the machine shop for the machine work. The .040s worked but it was close. Jim Terrell tells me you can bore a 218 .125" safely but that is the max after that you have to sleeve back to a smaller size. On another note anyone on the forum ever have the throws on the crank welded up and re-machined back to standard and if so how did they wear?

[greg g]

James, a few years back, I had a very leaky rear main seal on my 218. the shop I took it to sent the crank somewhere to be spray welded and turned to factory spec. It came back looking really nice, and for about 6 months, did the trick with the leak. But then it started to trickle again. don't know if it was the seal or the crank or the combination.

I have a couple of aquantances who have had their Cranks welded ad turned, haven't heard anything negative from them, so I guess the process works.

Edited June 11, 2011 by greg g

[Labrauer]

It sounds to me it would be some what cheaper to get a long block to put in. I have always had good experinces with them and sometimes they are even cheaper than a rebuild. I have rebuilt many engines and also had them rebuilt so to me that price seems a little high. Have you checked into a long block or a short block to see what the cost would be. If it isn't a large engine we are talking about you might come out ahead going this way. Money is money and time is time anyway you look at it. I would think that .080 is a lot on an old engine which will make the cylenders run hotter because of the thin walls. If it where me I wouldn't go the .080 on the pistons but just me talking.

Hope you make the right decision,

Larry Brauer

[woodie49]

A lot of these cars tend to run a little hot. I think going .080 over you might have a constant over heating problem.

[Guest bewillie]

I have an engine with .090 that I ran 40,000 miles with no over heating or any other problems. I still have it which I will put in another car one day. The only thing I plan on doing to it is replace the front and rear seals because it has been sittin for about 5yrs.