T5 Project

[48Dodger]

I appreciate the work you're putting into this thread. I know others have done this upgrade, but haven't seen it done in detailed to the Pilot-house. My brother's 50 truck will get this swap for sure, cuz I'm his builder and I get to say so. lol. look forward to seeing it in person, if not at the BBQ, in your neck of the woods.

48D

[Young Ed]

John thats great work. I need to get back on track with my swap. Are you seeing any need to modify the clutch disk? I've heard of some people having to swap the middle around to get more of the clutch disk on the splines of the T5.

[John-T-53]

If you had done this before your exodus to San Luis Obispo, and hadn't loaded your truck bed to the point of the Beverly Hillbillys you'd still be good. I'm guessing you ran your 4.10 at 55-65 mph. I know I did that once on my way to Santa Barbara (the furthest my truck's been). I got lucky and just blew my waterpump (as evidenced by that big rusty spot on my firewall. Funny, I can't remember how I made it back. I know I couldn't afford AAA or a tow truck back in 1981.

Thanks for posting,

Hank

Hank:

This one's for you...north of S.L.O in lovely Gonzales, CA, during the event you mentioned. I tried to keep it under 50 after this incident with the rod bearings.

[HanksB3B]

It just goes to show you, like women when it come to engines, looks aren't everything. Reckon your T-5 will make A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE.

Hank

[John-T-53]

I appreciate the work you're putting into this thread. I know others have done this upgrade, but haven't seen it done in detailed to the Pilot-house. My brother's 50 truck will get this swap for sure, cuz I'm his builder and I get to say so. lol. look forward to seeing it in person, if not at the BBQ, in your neck of the woods.

48D

Thanks 48D. I'm sorry I missed the party yesterday, but it was a rough week at work and I just couldn't get motivated early Saturday morning. Next year for sure.

But anyways, I worked on the project some more yesterday. More pix below.

This documents changing out the input shaft. I had to go with a shorter one because, well, it was just too long (insert joke here).

To avoid losing needle bearings inside the case, the tranny must be at a downward slant when pulling out the shaft. No problem. But it's a lot harder installing it. You gotta get the blocking ring, thrust bearing, and needle bearings to slip in there in one swoop.

They didn't. And the needle bearings fell out and cascaded down into the case. After regaining composure, tried to get 'em out by turning and shaking the trans, and retreived all but two. Then took the T5 apart and went hunting. Turns out there's a magnet at the bottom of the case designed to hold loose parts like this. It was a lot easier installing the input with the case cover off.

Edited April 10, 2011 by John-T-53

[NiftyFifty]

Thanks 48D. I'm sorry I missed the party yesterday, but it was a rough week at work and I just couldn't get motivated early Saturday morning. Next year for sure.

But anyways, I worked on the project some more yesterday. More pix below.

This documents changing out the input shaft. I had to go with a shorter one because, well, it was just too long (insert joke here).

To avoid losing needle bearings inside the case, the tranny must be at a downward slant when pulling out the shaft. No problem. But it's a lot harder installing it. You gotta get the blocking ring, thrust bearing, and needle bearings to slip in there in one swoop.

They didn't. And the needle bearings fell out and cascaded down into the case. After regaining my composure, tried to get 'em out by turning and shaking the trans, and retreived all but two. Then took the T5 apart and went hunting. Turns out there's a magnet at the bottom of the case designed to hold loose parts like this. It was a lot easier installing the input with the case cover off.

So is it because you used a camaro trans that you had to change the input shaft? I got mine from an 89 S-10 so it should just go in without that swap correct?

[John-T-53]

So is it because you used a camaro trans that you had to change the input shaft? I got mine from an 89 S-10 so it should just go in without that swap correct?

It's because I originally chose the longer input shaft available from the mustang gearset that's in the Camaro WC case I got. In this case, the longer was too long and the short one worked out perfectly.

The 87-93 Mustang V8 T5 input shaft measures 7.189 from the face of the maincase to the tip of the input shaft. The 94-95 measures 7.870 for a difference of .681.

[NiftyFifty]

It's because I originally chose the longer input shaft available from the mustang gearset that's in the Camaro WC case I got. In this case, the longer was too long and the short one worked out perfectly.

The 87-93 Mustang V8 T5 input shaft measures 7.189 from the face of the maincase to the tip of the input shaft. The 94-95 measures 7.870 for a difference of .681.

wow... just over .5"didn't work...not much room for error here...I'll have to measure mine soon before I start making my truck into a jigsaw puzzle...but first I have a 64 Massey 154 already in puzzle mode...

[John-T-53]

Well I guess I should finish the story here...

With the input shaft changed out, I got the driveshaft back and checked the fit of the new yoke. It slid in and out smoothly. Then, did another mockup with the tranny in the truck. Checked the position of the pilot bearing and input shaft - I left the pilot sticking out about .1" so it would have more contact with the shaft. The Mustang clutch disk was also checked to make sure it had enough room to slide back. After all that, the clutch was assembled, pedals put back on, and ready for final install of the T5.

[John-T-53]

The T5 goes in. It took some finessing to get it to slide in all the way, lying on my back with the T5 on my chest was not fun. The driveshaft got installed, and the yoke position was right on.

I had a 19" long custom stick fabricated from 1/2" round stock by the same shop that worked on the bell housing. They made this from a drawing I provided, and it bolted up to the short throw shifter. At this height there's about 12" throw, but clears the seat and provides the most comfortable driving setup. A simple ball from Lokar provides a good hand hold.

Edited May 14, 2011 by John-T-53

[John-T-53]

The last thing needed underneath is a rear cross member. I got a universal one from Trans Dapt. This one has a 6" drop and bolted right in between the frame rails. On each side, one of the mounting bracket holes lines up with a frame rivet, so I removed the rivet and bolted through in its place.

Back inside the cab, the stick received two coats rust-oleum satin black, and was finished off with a simple Jeep T5 shifter boot from Morris 4x4 center. The boot is thick rubber and took some break in, although it has only pulled the tranny out of gear only about 3 times so far. Now it's good.

On April 30th I took the maiden voyage down to San Luis Obispo, and took the backroads home east of the 101, near Parkfield. No services for 60 miles, but no worries. It's like a new truck! In addition to the od, the close ratio gears really woke this truck up. Keeping up with traffic is now possible, and fun.

Edited May 14, 2011 by John-T-53

[HanksB3B]

First Class!

Hank

[NiftyFifty]

First Class!

Hank

What did you use for a dive shaft? Custom or??

I'm heading in the same direction as you with a T-5 swap here...I'm a little concerned how to get the clutch shaft out though...looks very siezed

[BeBop138]

Nice and clean install---great work.......Lee

[Young Ed]

I love it. That shifter is perfect. I'll have to make or get someone to make one for mine.

[DanOlson]

Looks great. Would you happen to have the part number for the crossmember you used? I did not put one on mine.

[John-T-53]

Thanks for the cheers, guys.

Crossmember was Trans Dapt #9424 (universal, 6" drop, w/o mount). you can order the mount w/ the crossmember (#9444) in one package if you don't already have one. I had a mount for a TH-350 that fit the T5.

http://www.tdperformance.com/products/?id=3387

The driveshaft was modified from the original. All they did was shorten it, which eliminated the built-in slip joint in the process.

The original 3-spd stick is still in place. I don't want to trash it, nor do I want it taking up space in the garage. I think I'll just leave it in the truck; it doesn't bother me. Maybe I can figure out another function for it....ideas??

Thanks,

[ggdad1951]

Thanks for the cheers, guys.

The original 3-spd stick is still in place. I don't want to trash it, nor do I want it taking up space in the garage. I think I'll just leave it in the truck; it doesn't bother me. Maybe I can figure out another function for it....ideas??

Thanks,

ejector seat control?

[John-T-53]

Now that it's been a few years, I think I need to post some updates to the project. There were issues with this and that (who knew), and will document how I got them straightened out....problem is remembering everything right.

Earlier in this thread I told how the stock 11" clutch disk was hitting the flywheel bolt ends. Well, the Mustang disk interfered too. But this time it was on the other side. The forks interfered with the springs, and I can't remember if it was when engaged or disengaged. So, I called up Randall Grisham at Tennessee Clutch and told him my problem, and he immediately knew what I was talking about, said they had a smaller spring version of the same disk. It was that easy.

Pictured below is the "thick" mustang disk installed w/o pressure plate - checking for bolt interference. 

Next, the "thin" disc with blue springs on the left, and the thicker disk on the right. The springs just kissed the forks, but no damage was done. 

Last two pics are looking at the hub area where spring dia. can be compared.

I have the four-fork (11") clutch. I am not sure if this would have been a problem with the 10" three-fork clutch. 

 

 

 

[HotRodTractor]

Perfect timing - I was just going through this thread to help with my build/swap on the recommendation of another forum member. I see you used a Camaro T5, but it still uses the "chevy bolt pattern" - I assume that means its a NWC unit?

[John-T-53]

6 hours ago, HotRodTractor said:

Perfect timing - I was just going through this thread to help with my build/swap on the recommendation of another forum member. I see you used a Camaro T5, but it still uses the "chevy bolt pattern" - I assume that means its a NWC unit?

Let me revise that to say "GM bolt pattern" as this was also used in Pontiacs (Firebird) in addition to the Camaro. This is a WC unit.

I am not entirely sure as to what year Borg Warner upgraded their design for the world market (WC) and if it was across all models of the T5 built from that point on, or if they continued to produce the NWC for some vehicles (like the S-10).

[HotRodTractor]

58 minutes ago, John-T-53 said:

Let me revise that to say "GM bolt pattern" as this was also used in Pontiacs (Firebird) in addition to the Camaro. This is a WC unit.

I am not entirely sure as to what year Borg Warner upgraded their design for the world market (WC) and if it was across all models of the T5 built from that point on, or if they continued to produce the NWC for some vehicles (like the S-10).

That's definitely a fuzzy area for me as well. I know they started putting WC transmissions in GM product in 1993 (some S10 models included), but I know that some of those GM installed transmissions used the "Ford bolt pattern" For instance I have a Camaro WC transmission that has the "Ford bolt pattern", longer input shafts like most of the Fords, but has 26 splines for the GM clutch disc.

[John-T-53]

When I had the clutch area opened up. I also noticed the pilot bushing wasn't working out too well. Langdon's kit comes with a bushing machined to press into the Dodge flywheel and accept the T5 input, however it's not long enough to provide adequate support. I originally didn't press it in all the way and left it hanging about 3/16" out, which ultimately resulted in misalignment and spun the bushing. So I had my local machine shop make me a custom bushing...

 

Old and new, for comparison:

 

[John-T-53]

More pics...

I guess I could have even made it longer (on the back side) by approximately 1/8", looking at these.

One mistake I made on assembly was lubrication. I used grease on this bushing, which doesn't work. You're supposed to just soak it in oil. Grease clogs the pores in the bronze.

I can tell the bushing isn't spinning that freely in relation to the shaft when I disengage the clutch and put the tranny in gear - I can feel a little 'jolt' as the engagement stops the internals from spinning. Next time I happen to have the trans out, I will make another bushing. For now, sod it...

 

[John-T-53]

Note the balance marks on the crank flange and flywheel. Don't forget to line these up!