Help Needed

[Al B. Bach]

I managed to rebuild the the master cylinder today but I have a problem. There is a spring that attaches to the pedal and frame that helps bring the pedal back up. Unfortunately, it broke while I was putting everything back together. I tried a hardware store spring and it went AWOL after about 30 or so pumps. I don't know if it broke or the end just straightened out but I can't find it now. I called Autozone and they are unwilling to look through their parts to find a replacement. If they can't look it up in their computer then they can't find it.

Does anybody have any idea where I could find another one?

I still don't have any breaks after the rebuild but we are hoping it just needs bled now. We are going to try bleeding them tomorrow. Then it's on to putting new shoes on the front and I think she'll be ready for the start of car show season.

[1947PLEVY]

When you start bleeding the brakes...start with the wheel closest to the master cyclinder..then the next closest and so on...you may have to do it twice..LF...RF...LR...RR... God Bless US All... John

[Al B. Bach]

Thanks John. I'm glad you said that because for some dumb reason I was thinking you started with the farthest away first.

Is it possible to have so much air in the lines that you will never get any pedal no matter how long you pump it?

[Young Ed]

Al I've always done furthest to closest.

[hkestes41]

I believe my manual says furthest to closest.

What I did for a spring was go to either Napa or Autozone and in the aisle with the generic parts there was a back of four or five springs of different lengths / diameters. Bought the bag and used one of the springs included. The ends of each spring were straight so you could put your loop or bend in it where needed for the proper length.

[Al B. Bach]

Okay guys, now your confusing me. Is is farthest to closest or the other way around?

I will check at Autozone. I called them and they were no help at all. I'll have to go and look for myself.

Thanks,

Carl

[bamfordsgarage]

The way I understand it one can do either furthest to closest, or closest to furthest, but always go in sequence whichever you choose. Logically it shouldn't matter which direction you go.

In your first post you said you were going to bleed the brakes and then install the front shoes. I believe it makes more sense to install the shoes and drums first. If you are going to do it the other way around, make sure the pistons are constrained from popping out of the cylinders when you apply pressure to the brake fluid.

If you are still looking for a return spring, you could check with a brake and clutch shop. They likely have a selection of new and/or used springs kicking around.

[thrashingcows]

When I redid my MC...the first time...I pumped forever and got no fluid out of it. Turns out I forgot one piece. After that it pumped out fluid after only a couple pumps.

Here is the tread where I had my problems, and solution.

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=25742

[Don Coatney]

You should be able to find a sutible brake pedal return spring in the "help" section of any good automotive parts store. Nothing special or unique about this spring.

As has been mentioned you must have the brake assemblies on all 4 wheels completed including the drums installed prior to bleeding the system. It also is advisable to have the brake shoe adjustments completed prior to bleeding.

Did you bench bleed your master cylinder?

[Al B. Bach]

My plan was to get the breaks working so that I could get the car to someone that can help with the rest of the system. I did not bench bleed the MC because it seems the consciences here is that it isn't necessary with a single piston MC.

I may look at it again today and give changing the front shoes myself.

Later,

Carl

[RobertKB]

I have always bled furthest to closest. I likely have a spare spring on my parts car if you are interested. However, it would take some time to get there as it has to go throught the mail. Sounds like you want one quickly.

[Joe Flanagan]

If you have a Lowe's in your area, check their hardware aisle. I have found that they have a very good selection for a big box store. Also, Don's suggestion of looking at the "Help!" line of parts in any auto store is a good one.

[Al B. Bach]

I decided to take the suggestions on here and change the front shoes first. It took me awhile but I finally got it all apart and the new shoes installed on the drivers side. Now I have another problem and it has gotten me so frustated.

No matter what I do, I can't get the drum back on. I have the main adjustment cam set so that it isn't even touching the shoes. The manual says minor adjusting of the anchor bolt should allow the drum to go on. No matter how much I mess with it though the drum will not fit. I am not even close because it's basically the thickness of the shoes that is hitting.

What am I doing wrong here? I got the shoes from rockauto, is it possible they are the wrong ones? Once I had it figured out everything went together fine but I'm stumped now.

Thanks for any help,

Carl

[oldodge41]

Carl, try opening the air bleeders and pushing the brake cylinder pistons further into their bore. They may be holding the shoes out if the old lining was worn thin and the pistons have been extended for a long period of time. If the pistons are stuck out you may have to rebuild or replace them while you are at it. I have always bled from furthest to nearest the MC also..............Tim

[Al B. Bach]

Sorry about that. I'll add the car to my signature so it is not a problem in the future. I'm working on a 53 Windsor. It only has a little over 50,000 miles and the drums look really good. The old shoes were pretty thin though and were just starting to make noises so it is possible that the wheel cylinders are not fully collapsed.

I have some school work to get done but will work on them some more later tonight to see if it's the wheel cylinders.

Also, Rockauto.com has been a pretty good source of parts for me at lower prices. I had never heard of them before I got the car so I would not have called them a modern parts store. I have however noticed commercials on tv since so maybe they are a modern store.

Later,

Carl

[Niel Hoback]

From the P-15 shop manual:

1. Back the brake shoe adjusting cams all the way off. This will allow the pistons in the wheel cylinders to move infacilitating the escape of air.

2. Bleed the right rear wheel cylinder first, then the cylinder at the left rear wheel, the right front wheel and finally the left front wheel.

Clearly, they are directing "farthest to closest".

[1947PLEVY]

Al: I'm sorry about the wrong advice on the bleeding of the brakes..I was taught to do it that way years ago...In hindsight I should have read the manual, before posting.. God Bless US All... John

[Dodgeb4ya]

Your linings could be oversize thicker linings made to fit max turned drums-back in the day. You might need to find someone with a brake shoe arching machine to cut em down a bit. This was mentioned above. Sometimes by moving the anchors you can just barely get the shoes on but will have a soft pedal till they conform to the drums. Another couple things to take note of is when pushing the old wheel cylinder pistons and rubber cups deeper into the wheel cylinder there is usually brake fluid sludge and the rubber cups will possibly get damaged when pushed into this scale/sludge. Replacement/ proper rebuild of the wheel cylinders is a good idea.

And lastly if replacement new wheel cylinders are installed there has been comments on not being able to get the shoes on! This is because of the new W/cyl piston or pushrod design/lengths being different and too long. There are pictures in the photo section showing this issue.

Bob

[Al B. Bach]

After much cursing and complaining, I finally got the drum on. The passenger side went much better but it was still a pain. I ended up using my old life motto of "If at first you don't succeed, get mad at it. You'll feel better". It took a lot of very small adjustments of the anchor bolt as well as opening the bleeder valves (thanks Tim) but I think I am in business now. My brother is out looking for a spring and then we will start bleeding them.

Wish me luck,

Carl

[old stovebolt]

From the P-15 shop manual:

1. Back the brake shoe adjusting cams all the way off. This will allow the pistons in the wheel cylinders to move infacilitating the escape of air.

2. Bleed the right rear wheel cylinder first, then the cylinder at the left rear wheel, the right front wheel and finally the left front wheel.

Clearly, they are directing "farthest to closest".

Yes, that is the way I have always done it.....

[Al B. Bach]

Do you have a part number for the shoes that you got from Rock Auto? Could be of interest to others as a source. Did you call them directly to get them? I have never found brake shoes listed there for my Dodges.

I just realized, I got the MC kit from rockauto. The shoes came from Andy Bernbaum (oldmoparts.com). He has shoes for Dodges from 35 to 62 and was a pleasure to deal with.

[Al B. Bach]

Good news! We got it done tonight and I think it worked. I still have to put the interior back together before we can take it for a test drive. I don't have lights in the garage and it's raining anyway. Tomorrow is supposed to be a really nice day so I will take it out for a cruise and see if did anything wrong. I am still thinking about taking it to Tires Plus next week to have the breaks pressure bled.

[Joe Flanagan]

Congratulations. Let us know how it worked out.

[Al B. Bach]

I got all of the interior buttoned up, my copilot jumped in and we cruised around for 6 hours. She drove good and stopped great! I think I am in business again.

I did notice a couple times, in parking lots, that there is a slight rubbing sound like one of the breaks may be dragging ever so slightly. I can't tell if it's coming from the front or rear for sure but I think it may be the right front. I had a heck of a time getting it adjusted enough to get the drum on. I think I'll be okay because it will seat in no time. Do you guys think I should worry about it?

I also want to make sure I understand when I should adjust them. It is my understanding that I should adjust them at 500 miles and then every 1000 miles, correct?

This was also the first drive with the new curb feelers, headlight visors, mirrors and mirror visors. Everything stayed on and I really think she looks good with the new accessories! Next up is the outside sun visor, which is on the way.

Thanks for all the help,

Carl

[oldodge41]

Congratulations Carl! Nice car. Nice co-pilot too...........Tim