Jon's Project (bringing Pop's truck back)

[Jon1953B4]

Hi fellows,

So far I've found just reading all types of threads on this forum to be very informative. This is my first pilothouse a 1953 1/2 ton(see attached), it was my grandfather's service truck for my great grandfather's heating company(gulf oil affiliated-nice paint scheme) parked out of commission in 1988. Since has been mostly just talked about and traded within the family. As of last month I completed the most work that's been done on it since 88' by towing it home, cleaning it out, and pulling the front wheels. Leave it up to the 24 year old grandson to actually get his hands dirty rather than just talk about it. I have some restoration experience from my 70' chevelle. Light bodywork (not finished), rebuilt top end of engine, installed new suspension, 12 bolt rear, 4 speed OD trans, etc. mostly bolt on work.Sorry for the novel but I felt an introduction was in order.

Now I'm in the planning stages for the dodge. Plan is currently to replace stock drivetrain with an EFI V6 and 5 speed(need MPH and MPG). Then convert any possible upgrades for steering, brakes, suspension etc. Truck will need to be used daily including tackling interstate 95(MD, DC) traffic and speeds of 70 plus.

Looking for any solid advice on drivetrain swaps, front disc brake conversions, suspension work(lowering, ride quality, part availability), steering info., etc.

Thanks for your time and providing countless knowledge and experience to guys who just don't have the time in yet.

Jon

jonhl@live.com

[HanksB3B]

You found the right place!

Hank

[Jon1953B4]

I agree, nice truck you got there Hank.

Jon

[Merle Coggins]

Welcome to our family. Great story and awesome lookin' truck project. As for the V6 swap I'd recommend looking for a donor Dakota and use the entire front clip and drive train. Forum member Denise Trip had her father's truck brought back to life with a Dakota drive train, although hers has an automatic instead of a 5 speed. I had a chance to drive it and it was quite nice. I don't know a lot of detail on it but if you are interested I could possibly get you in contact with her. She had the work done by a local shop and I don't know how much of the detail she knows but it might be worth asking. She hasn't been active on the forum for quite a while but you could try contacting her through the email or Private Message function of the forum. If that doesn't work I have her direct email.

I wish I had taken more pictures when I was there. It is a sweet truck.

[Jon1953B4]

Merle,

Thanks for the encouragement I've read a lot of posts with your name on it. Very nice truck lives up to your well deserved zen master status. I would really appreciate the email of Denise to get any info she might have to offer. There's so many different options its overwhelming. I've read a thread of Bud's truck about a full dakota frame swap, I've seen disc conversions for the I-beam and motor and trans mount kits from summit racing.

I think my biggest struggle so far is deciding what direction to go. I know what I want to achieve(now after much debate of keeping original, just not cost effective or feasible for end goals) its just how to get there.

Jon

[ggdad1951]

welcome aboard! Looks like you have a good project to work on! Keep us all updated with pictures!

[Fernando Mendes]

I found mine B3-B 1952 in 1986 exactly like this,without wheels,on the floor.

[Merle Coggins]

I know where you're at Jon. When I first got my truck home I was mulling over many possible options on how to build it. I had a 360 from a mid 70's snow plow truck that I thought about using. I had also read a lot about volarie clip upgrades and such and realized that I didn't have the resources to pull that off successfully. After much thinking, reading, dreaming, and disassembling to see what I actually had, I finally decided to rebuild it back to stock. I since upgraded to disc brakes up front, but I'm very happy with my decision. With the 3.73 diff I swapped into my axle I can comfortably cruise down the freeway at 70+ MPH and the disc brakes allow me to stop comfortably from that speed. But I don't know if I'd want to make it a daily driver. No power steering, non-syncro trans, and a lack of serious HP make it more challenging to drive, but that's also what makes it fun when I do get it out.

To see what I went through for my "stock" rebuild check out my photo album on the DEPTCA site. http://dodgepilothouseclub.org/gallery/v/mac2026/

[Jon1953B4]

Merle,

Nice work, the truck certainly came a long way. What disc brake conversion did you use?

[Merle Coggins]

I used a Rusty Hope kit http://www.rustyhope.com/mopardiscbrakes.html

Charlie is a forum member and puts together a good, easy to assemble, kit. Many here have uses it and have been happy with it.

Merle

[Jon1953B4]

Thanks

[buds truck]

Jon, welcome!! As you have seen I did a complete frame swap with a 91 Dakota. It really was not that hard, but I used to be a bodyman for years. You can find a v6 Dakota out there for very little $$ and they come fuel injected. with a v6 you will not have the space issues I have in the engine compartment. I used the dakota firewall and floor in mine. God luck in which ever way you decide, THe guys here will be glad to help you along the way. Bud

[Jon1953B4]

Bud,

You're truck is awesome and one of the major reasons I've been reading into the frame swap. Using the dakota floor did that make mounting the cab easier? The firewall was a great idea. How much of a challenge was it getting the front clip to line up/mount up etc? Is there a certain model dakota that is more feasible(long bed, short bed, reg cab)? Any advice is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Jon

[moparmonkey]

Welcome to the forum! That's a pretty nice looking truck to start with.

As far as your build, it sounds to me like you'd benefit from just swapping the entire frame with a Dakota. That will give you everything you want, V6, upgraded steering, suspension, brakes etc. Using the floor and firewall makes some things easier, but its a lot of welding to do. I would guess that its easier to just use the stock floor and firewall and fabricate new mounts, but I could be wrong. I did a frame clip with one of my '53's, and I would have to say its probably easier to use the whole frame.

As far as what Dakota's, the first gen Dak's are probably best. Made from '87 to '96, they have a 111.9" wheelbase (reg cab short bed), 87-88 are 68.4" wide and '89 to '96 are 69.4" wide. Second gen Dak's (97-04) are the same wheelbase for the regular cab/short bed, but are 71.5" wide.

Either way, you'll have to take a few inches out of the length of the frame (or extend the length of the bed, or cab if you're adventurous), but there's a pretty easy place to do this. Plus, if you buy a donor truck, you'll get the electronics too.

Good luck with your project!

[Jon1953B4]

Moparmonkey,

Thanks for the dakota info. I'm still unsure which route for the build will be best for me. I've also been looking into a drivetrain swap(including wiring harness and whatever else is usable) because the universal mounting kits are readily out there. Then as far as my other concerns I've been able to track down disc brake conversions (through the forum), steering upgrades, and even a dropped front axle on http://www.droppedaxles.com/DODGE_AXLES.html.

Wondering also has anybody tried this or have info about this product?

As far as trying to keep the amount of build time to end driving time a minimum I'm not sure with my limited welding experience if I'm quite ready for the frame swap on this project(maybe next time). I'm not so much scared to learn I just don't want the project sitting for years. I learned quick with my chevelle being able to drive a project is instant motivation for working on it.

I'm in the process of getting my state home inspectors license and the plan is to use the truck as my hot rod billboard and inspection work horse. Besides, just driving to work in the same truck my grandfather drove to work will keep me happy for years to come.

[buds truck]

Bud,

You're truck is awesome and one of the major reasons I've been reading into the frame swap. Using the dakota floor did that make mounting the cab easier? The firewall was a great idea. How much of a challenge was it getting the front clip to line up/mount up etc? Is there a certain model dakota that is more feasible(long bed, short bed, reg cab)? Any advice is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Jon

Jon, thanks for the compliment, it means alot. Using the dakota floor will sit the truck as low as you see mine in my avatar if you match it up with the stock floor. I like low, so it is good with me. The dakota floor only goes back to the drivers seat area, so it is kinda half and half (half dakota and half pilothouse floor). This made it so I could use the front mounts on the dakota floor, but had to manufacture rear mounts on the body (I used stock frame mounts from the dakota in the stock locations). I also had to radius the wheel house areas as the tires hit the cab. All in all, not a hard job, but from your last post, maybe more than you want to do. You may be better off using the stock floor and making some new mounts. The first gen Dakotas are your best choice, the frame has a great place to do the shortening. THe earlier dakotas also have 5 lug wheels, mine (91) has 6 lug wheels, but the old Dodge 15' hubcaps snap right on the stock wheels, so it's all good.

[HanksB3B]

What I would do is first decide on what type of restoration you'd like to do. Mine was to make my truck mechanically stock and to make it look like it just rolled off the assembly line with upgraded wood in the bed.

I took the truck completely apart photographing as I went (trust me, you can't have enough digital photos). I have (as most of us probably do) a B Series Truck Manual. I also assembled everything once the engine was rebuilt and installed it into the newly painted frame.

Although I would love to have a custom boxed-in frame with a high-tech suspension and drive train I realize this would probably double the cost of my restoration which was around $14,000.

I personally did not:

1. Paint the Frame $600

1. Rebuild the engine $1,400

2. Replace the entire Bed and Wood $3,100

3. Paint the Truck $5,000

If you add it all up and subtract it from $14.000 you get just under $4,000 so my guess is that if you do everything yourself and don't need a complete new metal bed (just the wood) you can probably rebuild a truck for somewhere near $5,000 to $6,000 if you do everything yourself.

Good work takes time and at your age time is on your side but at your age instant gratification probably rules. If money is no object and you just want to farm as much as possible out and just be the Director and Executive Producer like I was this time around, you can probably complete the truck in one year. I took 3 years with my project so $14/3 = somewhere under $5,000 per year to get it done.

If I were you I'd build it completely stock first, then if you have the room, the time and the money build a more modern version of the frame, (Could be a Dakota) engine and powertrain. Leave your truck in that polyurethane primer until the time ready to move the body over (because you'll probably have to modify the firewall).

Probably not what you want to hear,

Hank

[Dave72dt]

Unless the parts of the build Hank farmed out is all labor, you have to add back in the cost of materials/parts. Beds cost money, we were just talking about paint and that was just the final color. Add in the cost of fillers, primers, sand paper. Even if you do all the work yourself, the materials used still cost something. You save only on the labor. With, as you say, your limited fabrication skills, there are some bolt-on things that can be done to make it more comfortable. Radial tires for instance, disc brake kit up front, changing the rear gears to a more freeway comfortable ratio, a few simple engine upgrades such as headers, shaving the head, good tune up, wiil go a long way. Engine swaps/ frame swaps are not usually bolt-on projects and can add dramatically to the cost and time to complete a vehicle. Not trying to discourage you from building the truck you want. just stating the realities that go along with modifying.

Welcome to the forum, Whichever way you decide to build, you'll find plenty of support.

[Jon1953B4]

Thanks to everybody who has been responding. Everyone has great input and advice to add. Don't worry about discouraging me or saying something I might not want to hear. I joined this forum for the advice and experience of guys that have been there and it's all much appreciated. Ultimately its up to me to take the advice and/or ideas and do what I want. Educate yourself and go for it. I think I'm just fooling myself a little with the time frame no matter what direction I go. My chevelle is an on going 7 year project from stock, to wrecked, to 12 second car. The damn thing still needs to be worked and painted. Thanks again to everybody.

Jon

[pflaming]

I am a patina fan. These pics have been show a few times, but if you just clean the truck, I used 800 sandpaper and came down slowly, yours can look better than this for a while. Drive it that way for a while then paint later. There are some really NICE looking OP trucks, it is getting popular. JMHO. Good looking truck!

Edited December 26, 2017 by pflaming

[Jon1953B4]

Thanks for the compliment I plan to leave the patina for now as well. I think it shows a lot of character and history.

[Jon1953B4]

Yesterday after some failed equipment and getting rained on I finished pulling the engine and transmission. Was taking advantage of some warmer weather, got the engine/trans on the right angle lifting them out with having to only remove the hood, dropped on some dollies, and tucked away with plastic.

[pflaming]

There are a lot of us who remember pulling out our engines for the first time. Now go buy 100 zip lock bags and 100 3x5 cards. When you remove anything, put it in a bag with a 3x5 card description. Two months or two years later you will appreciate that bag and that card. Good luck. The attachment is how mine looks today. I did not paint it. Instead I gave it about five (5) coats of clear, looks old but cleans up nice.

Edited December 26, 2017 by pflaming

[ggdad1951]

There are a lot of us who remember pulling out our engines for the first time. Now go buy 100 zip lock bags and 100 3x5 cards. When you remove anything, put it in a bag with a 3x5 card description. Two months or two years later you will appreciate that bag and that card. Good luck. The attachment is how mine looks today. I did not paint it. Instead I gave it about five (5) coats of clear, looks old but cleans up nice.

heh, just 100? I think I bought about 200 of the LARGE ones and 200 of the sandwich sized for my truck. And there were/are times I still looked at that Ziplok and couldn't figure out what it was!

[Merle Coggins]

I used the Ziploc freezer bags with the white write on surface. Then used a Sharpie to write on the bag what was going into it. I tried to keep things seperated as much as possible. Bigger items went into boxes for safe keeping.

Merle