201 hop up project

[Cpt.Fred]

ok,

this weekend i could not wait any longer.

i decided to take a cruise for the last time this year, since the weather was cold but dry and nice.

afterwards i drained the oil and took the manifold off while the motor was still hot.

since i soaked all the bolts with oil for the last two months,

i didn't brake anything! boy, i sure am lucky! i cut off the 2 screws on the exaust flange, though, because they have to be changed anyway.

afterwards i took the oil pan off and cleaned it out,

there was quite a bit of sludge in there, but not as much as i had feared,

and none of it was containing magnetic particles or other suspicious stuff.

i am very pleased with the appearance of the engine's inside, cylinder walls appear to be smooth and i didn't find anything ugly. camshaft looks ok, too.

the flywheel's teeth are eaten away a bit, though...

the plan is to fabricate headers and a triple carb setup.

i am having quite some help here by bloodyknuckles from the board, who sent me pics of his great setup and keeps answering my questions.

i am still on the hunt for more info and opinions, guys, so feel free to chime in!

3 carter b&b would be nice and cheap, but i still don't know how to built my linkage exactly.

also i'm not sure about the jets and wether i should connect the 3 intake tubes with a cross pipe or not.

the headers will most likely be tube headers with two collectors, so i can run two straight pipes for good breathing and a nice , rich sound (not too loud!).

still not sure about the ideal lenght of each tube between the exhaust port and the collector.

you can see i have enough work for the winter...! can't wait to hear it run again!

[aero3113]

You got VERY lucky . Was there a gasket on your oil pan? It looks like sealant was just used on the edges?

Don't you just love working on these cars!

[Frank Elder]

Nice work Fred! Looks like a bottle of human prelube on the fender there:eek:When you get your linkage all hooked up don't forget to sync it so everything opens the same before you tune it.

[Cpt.Fred]

there actually was a gasket between block and pan,

but it was baked hard up against the block and didn't have any effect anymore, i guess.

this pan should now be a dry one, i hope...

and yes, that is a bottle of liquid bread on the fender: you have to eat well

when you work hard.

[Uncle-Pekka]

Good work Fred!

Pulling exhaust manifold without breaking anything nor leaving any studs in the block is job well done.

Also when it comes to "the basement" you are well off. When I pulled my oil pan couple of years ago, I found at least a liter of lead deposit in it. The suction mouth of the oil pump was ca. 85% clogged by that very deposit. A top of a cherry there was brass shim repair in a main bearing. No wonder there were no oil pressure when I got the car. In spite of all this, the engine run quite nice - of course much better after mending the problems.

It is a miracle how strong and dependable these mopar L-heads are.

[Don Coatney]

If you have a pocket full of coins you can call George Asche and talk carburetors. Be prepaired for a long conversation as he loves to talk. His phone number is in the links section of the main web page supporting this forum.

Flywheel does not look too bad. You can heat the ring gear to remove it and flip it around as the teeth on the back of it look new.

Here is what my ring gear looked like. I did not flip it.

[greg g]

Fred, did you talk to Moose about manifolds??? I wanted to try a couple of SU carburetors on mine before I found the Fenton intake. I had a couple of carbs from a 4.0 Jaguar. But I didn't think I could do up a manifold. the was before I was aware of mooses stuff. Nice thing about the 1 3/4 in SU's is that they are correct for the displacement of your engine, and because of their tapered pin style main jet, they are easily adjustable, and easy to mod through altering the needles or buying different ones.

does your linkage go across the head like on the P15's or is it different on the earlier cars.

SU should be easy to find in your area. Just something to think about. I believe the 210 cu inch engine = 3.3 liters.

http://www.manifoldsbymoose.com/manifoldsbymoose/D-P_Combos.html

http://www.sw-em.com/su_carbs.htm

Edited November 22, 2010 by greg g

[Cpt.Fred]

don, thanks for the tip.

when i get my trans out to make it stop bleeding i'll try reversing the ring on the fly wheel.

as for talking carburetors, there was a nice picture of mr.asche in a recent thread where he showed a triple-carb-setup...

i guess it was that big road-trip-thread over the summer.

maybe i should call the man...

in the meantime i was reading a lot, for example this:

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/engines_drivetrain/exhaust/0505phr_exh/index.html

(never mind the domain:rolleyes:)

there is a lot to think about here when it comes to build a decent setup.

still learning.

greg, i did not talk to anyone yet when it comes to have the stuff fabricated,

because i simply cannot afford to pay anyone else's work,

or cast headers or anything else.

shipping cost are through the roof when it comes to big and heavy parts like that.

i have to build it myself, i guess,

and with the help of good friends.

in the end i hope to own a unique and well-balanced setup.

and about the SUs, they're available but expensive.

since i now know the carters and already own 2 of them,

i hope i can make it all work using them.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Cpt.Fred

[greg g]

well maybe the pictures on Moose's site will serves some idea starters. As for the carters, since the amount of fuel they draw is determined by the air flow through them, running 2 splits the air flow in half and in theory also halves the fuel. Based on that theory, messing with the jets is probably not necessary.

On my set up, I did set both accelerator pump strokes to the shortest stroke, as their volume of fuel in the squirt is determined by that rather than the air flow.

[Don Coatney]

maybe i should call the man...

On my visits I took a few pictures of George Asche and his stuff. Follow this link.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v65/DonCoatney/George%20Asche/?start=all

[BloodyKnuckles]

Fred, I'm not sure you would benefit from the research and time comsumption of equal length tube headers. It would make a difference on high performance engines but I just can't see how it would help a flat 6. Also, I have yet to see a set of equal length headers that look nice let alone period correct (...not to say that's what your goal is.).

Just my thoughts.

Oh, call George Ashe. You'll be glad you did.

BloodyKnuckles

[Cpt.Fred]

nice photos, don! great stuff:)

bloody, you're right about the difference between high end race engines and my shabby old 201,

but that's not what i aim for.

i simply want to understand a little more of the physics before i start building

anything. i do not want anything too modern, nor do i want ugly stuff, but it should at least make a difference in the end.

here's what a good friend did to his russian flat-6:

i don't think it looks too bad... and if it helps breathing, well...

[Andydodge]

Fred, for a Russian Flat 6 that looks a lot like a Mopar Flat 6.........did 'ol Joe Stalin copy the Mopar 6 as well as the B29?......lol.................andyd

[Cpt.Fred]

actually comrade stalin paid for it regulary...

back in the days when they all still used to do business with each other.

they had a major deal with dodge technology in the 30s, i believe.

and you're right, it is amazing how similar everything is.

makes me believe i can do something very similar with my car.

Edited May 15, 2011 by Cpt.Fred
poor spelling

[greg g]

The Russians are famous for reverse engineering. They got mountains of material, vehicles, and military equipment from the US during During WWII throughthe lend lease act. My father did convoy escort duty during the early part of he war, and he mentioned that the shipg going to russia were loaded with Dodge trucks, Studebaker trucks, GM trucks, both civilian and millitary, Dodge, Plymouth and other American brands of cars, Jeeps, Busses, etc. So the similarity of the Russian built engine and common American flat 6 isn't suprising.

[BloodyKnuckles]

Fred, those examples look good.

Now get to work!!

BloodyKnuckles

[Cpt.Fred]

yessir!

[Cpt.Fred]

alright, i moved on a little...

the flanges are at the laser cutter, the tubes are ordered, i have a fuel metering block

and a bunch of ragged old carter carbs.

i'll take them apart, clean everything and rebuild one out of the best parts i have here.

one question:

where do you buy your rebuild kits?

i found there is quite a price range there and i want to have the best buy

when i have to pay the shipping anyway...

thanks!

fred

Edited January 12, 2011 by Cpt.Fred

[greg g]

Google carburetor doctor or carburetorking.

[Cpt.Fred]

thanks greg, i got some at a place called "Mike's Carburetor Parts".

i hope they're good.

i'll take the carbs apart this weekend and give them away for cleaning

at a friend's workplace, they have a big parts cleaner there and everything

comes back like new:)

[Cpt.Fred]

i got a 23" engine block from a friend that we want to use as an assembly support.

we still have to measure everything once again, but i guess it must be all the same, in matters of intake and exhaust flanges and bolts.

can anyone say where this block came out of? some 50's mopar, but what exactly?

here's some pics:

also i did a mock up with some wooden blocks and carbs to see where exactly

they will sit above the block, and build a card board template for the tubes.

the best thing is that my friend who does the welding secretly completed the collectors for the headers and gave them to me as a birthday present!

i'm one happy camper!

i hope the flanges come from the laser cutter this week, then the welding can begin!

Edited January 24, 2011 by Cpt.Fred

[Alshere59]

You may want to check the stroke on that as it may be a 230 engine. I haven't seen an M in the ID number before but the narrow pulley I believe was on the later engines.

Big change from a 201.

I did remember one M code and it is at this site.

http://t137.com/registry/help/otherengines/19581968engines.html

I do not see yours listed but these are from trucks. LOL yep it is there. Edit: Drink coffee then post.

Al

Edited January 24, 2011 by Alshere59

[moose]

I feel like I've seen that design before!

Good stuff man, keep up the updates!

[Cpt.Fred]

thanks, al!

looks like the "M23 or 230" engines are out of the Dodge D and W truck series,

although the guy who lent it to me said he ripped it out of a passenger car... but that doesn't mean too much, does it.

moose, you're right, as i said earlier i kind of copy the intake board member bloodyknuckles uses on his engine,

only that this is most likely supposed to be an independent runner setup in the end,

without the collector under the carbs.

the headers will look very much like the ones on russian flatty above,

only with a smoother curve that will allow me service operation on the valves.

my engine bay offers much more room to the side than his,

though it gets a little cosy for the carbs between the horns...

Edited January 24, 2011 by Cpt.Fred

[Robert Horne]

Cpt.Fred,

Yesterday I seen a video on the net, from a company that makes exhaust headers by using plastic plumbing parts as a template. Your project is very interesting, thanks for sharing..