'33 PC Winter Projects

[knuckleharley]

HAH! That ain't rust! If you want to see rust you should see my 33 PD coupe.

[knuckleharley]

The 33 rear end is a bit narrower than the later ones. Maybe a early 60's A body one would be close.

Guys,I have a 8-3/4 from a 62 Dart A body that I can measure if anybody is interested. You should be aware that the 62 Dart A body was a bigger car than the later A body/Darts.

I bought it to put under my 33 coupe,but can't remember right now how wide it is.

I'm thinking a 6 cylinder rear from a 59-62 or so Valiant might be a good fit since you are keeping the original engine. Not much demand for 6 cylinder rears,so it would be cheap if you would find one.

[knuckleharley]

i'm going to by running an 8 3/4 rear out of a '68 charger (b-body) in my '33 Chrysler i don't know

if Plymouths were narrower? but would suggest find an 8 3/4 rear or ford 9..and maybe see if you can get an adapter for a t-5 5spd...

Forget the Charger rear. It's going to be waaaay too wide.

Forget the Ford 9 inchers,too. If you do find one of the rare ones from under a early 60's big block Fairlane it's going to go for stupid money.

Besides,why do you even want or think you need a rear end like that when all you are going to be pushing it with is something like 65 hp? Those big rears will cost more than 350 to buy and then you will have to spend a ton of money narrowing them and buying new axles.

Why not just buy a 100 dollar 8 inch rear from something like a Maverick or a Grenada? They are narrow enough to work and are strong enough to handle up to 300 rear wheel HP in racing applications.

Or a rear from a Jeep Cherokee,Ford Explorer,etc,etc,etc? More expensive and you may not want to spend the extra time and money to swap master cylinders and figuring out proportioner valves for the disc brake setup,but you could look around and try to find a earlier version with drum brakes.

Or do like I suggested earlier and look around for a rear from a early 60's 6 cylinder Valiant if you want to keep it all Mopar?

[knuckleharley]

... I think the ratio in the mid 3:00 would be the best, something like a 3:55. ....[/quote

I think you are right. You don't have all the torque in the world,and need a gear at least that low to make sure your engine can pull it. Put too high a gear in it and you ain't going to be happy with it when you aren't driving on the open highway.

[knuckleharley]

I would think there's nothing wrong with putting the 7 1/4 gear in there either. I doubt the 6cyl has enough guts to break it.

I think there are huge advantages to running one. One advantage is the gearing should be in the ballpark because it is coming out of a car with less than 125 HP and not a whole lot of torque,and the other reason is they are dirt cheap and come with drum brakes.

If you can't find one for 50-75 bucks you just ain't looking.

[knuckleharley]

agreed but most of those 7 1/4 were geared pretty tall..and if he's looking for 3.55 or to lower his gears he's up a creek...of course the 7 1/4 people are giving away...and i don't think it will break on him but would it be too tall he couldn't: get out of 1st gear?

Why would a 7-1/4 rear from a 6 cylinder car have high gears? The 6's wouldn't pull higher gears,so the factories geared them lower than the V-8 rears.

I just did a quick check on the web,and found two 62 Valiants with 3:23 rears.

Frankly,I am surprised they were geared that high.

Edited November 18, 2010 by knuckleharley

[gillettealvin]

Thanks for your offer, Tommy. I think the guy right here in town is going to hook me up with a rear. Appreciate your offer, though! GA

[gillettealvin]

Knucklehead, Thanks for your input on the rear. The guy that is doing my floors and firewall is going to check with his gumba for a Mopar rear, probably an A body, which is the "right" width/spring pad measurement. This fellow allegedly has Mopar rears stacked like cord wood in his back yard. I am definitely going to ask him about a rear for a six cylinder car when the time comes. Thanks again for your thoughts. GA

[gillettealvin]

If your "line in the sand" shifts to the point where you decide to paint the body you might want to keep in mind that the firewall (from the hood lacing forward) should be black regardless of body color. It wasn't until 1936 or 37 that the firewall color matched the body color (unless your body color was black).

25 pounds oil pressure at 40 MPH is low. Manual says 30 PSI at 30 MPH.

I can't tell from your photos, but it looks like you may have the last of the three oil pump/oil pressure relief valve setups used in 1933. A close up of the oil pump cover and the area around the oil filter return/later pressure relief valve area on the block would tell for sure. Or the engine number. It may make a difference if/when you look into it. Low pressure may be easy (broken or weak oil pressure relief spring, worn oil pump, etc.) or major (worn bearings). But you should at least find out the cause.

Tod, Thanks for your thoughts. The firewall will definitely get the treatment, as he has to fill holes from the last PO's fifteen different heaters mounted, each with a different hole!

What I'm hoping for, and looking for when I get the engine opened up, is a quick main/connecting rod bearing replacement, and maybe rings and a valve job. LOL!

I cannot find anyone selling kits for the '33 oil pump, (pics attached.) My experience with Fords, over the years, is they seldom need a "kit," mostly just cleaning and reassembly? I will let you know what is in there when I start pulling stuff apart.

Thanks again for your input. GA

[oldodge41]

The Mopar 7-1/4 is a good piece. have one in my 69 Dart but beware lots of them are 5 on 4.25 bolt pattern.

[moparbenny]

Why would a 7-1/4 rear from a 6 cylinder car have high gears? The 6's wouldn't pull higher gears,so the factories geared them lower than the V-8 rears.

I just did a quick check on the web,and found two 62 Valiants with 3:23 rears.

Frankly,I am surprised they were geared that high.

because all the a bodys i have had with 7 1/4 had 2.76 gears..and 62 valiants

were not A-bodys. valiants were not A bodys till 63/64..60-62 were b bodys..

Edited November 18, 2010 by moparbenny

[moparbenny]

Forget the Charger rear. It's going to be waaaay too wide.

Forget the Ford 9 inchers,too. If you do find one of the rare ones from under a early 60's big block Fairlane it's going to go for stupid money.

Besides,why do you even want or think you need a rear end like that when all you are going to be pushing it with is something like 65 hp? Those big rears will cost more than 350 to buy and then you will have to spend a ton of money narrowing them and buying new axles.

Why not just buy a 100 dollar 8 inch rear from something like a Maverick or a Grenada? They are narrow enough to work and are strong enough to handle up to 300 rear wheel HP in racing applications.

Or a rear from a Jeep Cherokee,Ford Explorer,etc,etc,etc? More expensive and you may not want to spend the extra time and money to swap master cylinders and figuring out proportioner valves for the disc brake setup,but you could look around and try to find a earlier version with drum brakes.

Or do like I suggested earlier and look around for a rear from a early 60's 6 cylinder Valiant if you want to keep it all Mopar?

well for one i all ready have a '68 charger rear...my old man measured and bought it for the car 30 years ago...all i have to do is re weld the perches.

and the ford 300 has more than 65 hp..try more (brace yourself) 100-120 hp

i want to change rears to get better brakes. and drop out rears are easier to change ratios.

far has ford 9's i know guy who has one in his '34 ply ( i gave him crap for putting a ford part on a mopar..) and he said going with a 9 was cheaper and easier then trying to find an A body 8 3/4. i'm going with late 60's Volvo disk brakes because a guy in my street rod club has them on his '33 dodge and they work rather well..and because i not going IFS i'm using stock front suspension but i would like disk up front...

sorry for the highjack:(

Edited November 18, 2010 by moparbenny

[TodFitch]

Tod, Thanks for your thoughts. The firewall will definitely get the treatment, as he has to fill holes from the last PO's fifteen different heaters mounted, each with a different hole!

What I'm hoping for, and looking for when I get the engine opened up, is a quick main/connecting rod bearing replacement, and maybe rings and a valve job. LOL!

I cannot find anyone selling kits for the '33 oil pump, (pics attached.) My experience with Fords, over the years, is they seldom need a "kit," mostly just cleaning and reassembly? I will let you know what is in there when I start pulling stuff apart.

Thanks again for your input. GA

Looks like you have the earliest of the three oil pressure relief systems. The springs for that have a different number than later systems so if you do have a weak or broken spring you might have to get creative.

For historical background, the factory shipped engines with three separate oil pressure relief systems. In order:

1. Relief valve mounted on cover of oil pump. Parts book shows your setup.

2. Relief valve inside pan with an adjustable plug for setting spring tightness.

3. Relief valve on driver side of block with spool valve that controls return flow from filter (system used until end of production decades later).

And then to make it a bit more confusing, there was a factory retro-fit kit for the relief valve inside the pan to move it to the cover of the oil pump. But they used a different cover and valve than the early one. So you can have one of four different systems on your engine, based on engine number and possible retro-fit, on your 1933 engine. Mine happens to have the retro-fit kit for the valve inside the pan.

[gillettealvin]

I tore into the ’33 motor today. When I first got the car last March, I’d dropped the pan and cleaned out the sludge on the bottom, caused most likely, from years of sitting. Everything looked immaculately clean, then; and today I was pleased to find most of the inside very tidy. My suspicion is that some PO did a ring/valve/bearing job in the very recent, (mileage,) past.

As mentioned, the oil pressure had been on the low side, and following some of the suggestions here and my own instincts, I kept an eye to any problem areas. I think I’ve found the issue: bearings. I’m attaching some pictures of the overall cleanliness of the insides, and some detail shots of some of the other parts, and the bearings. All of the mains have a grayish tint, and the rear, especially, looks rougher than the others. While the crank has minor scratches, (sorry, no pictures,) that will more than likely polish out, the bearings look prematurely “worn.” I tried to show the worst of it in the picture of the rear. Note the blushed spot where the pencil marks (arrows,) are, and also the VERY rough area that I scribbled on in pencil towards the front of the motor. If you run your finger over this area, it is noticeably bumpy to the touch. I’m thinking a new set of bearings, and also feeling lucky I caught it before any further damage was done to the crankshaft.

What is the likely cause of this kind of earlyt wear? Improper “start up” oiling? Bad quality bearings? Any input is appreciated.

My planned direction at this point is to take the motor to my rebuilder and have him boil the block, check all the other tolerances, clean up the crankshaft, maybe re-hone the cylinders and check the valves. With any luck I’ll get by with a new set of bearings, and new rings? GA

[Jerry Roberts]

Are worn cam shaft bearings also of source of low oil pressure ? I think someone mentioned that a while back .

[gillettealvin]

I believe I may have found a major cause for oil leaks on my engine! It is very hard to photograph the parts, and as difficult to describe what I’ve discovered, but here is an attempt.

As mentioned in my bearing post, earlier this year, I’d pulled the oil pan to clean it out, and replaced the gaskets/seals with a NAPA gasket set. The set I got was for a ’40’s car, but the parts man told me “they’re all pretty much the same in the book.” I installed the pan and went for a ride. Over the summer I noticed a pretty good sized oil spot under the car on a regular basis, as well as drips coming from the flywheel housing tin bottom cover. All along I’ve suspected a leaky rear main seal. This was/is the main reason I’d decided to tear the engine down this off season.

What I’ve found is that the rear main bearing cap has an area that looks almost as if the factory left out a “step” in manufacturing, and although I’m sure this isn’t the case, what exists looks like some bad engineering. (Or, am I missing something?)

At the very bottom of the main cap, there is an area that is maybe an inch or so long, and it is cast so as to allow the cork that mates into it to flatten for that little spot, right at the bottom, and right at the edge of the metal lip of the oil pan. While most of the cork forms an edge that acts as a “dam,” this part of the cap actually allows the cork to interrupt the shape of that dam, and looks as if it would be an open invitation to the oil splashing around in the pan to exit same.

I’m posting a couple of shots, and as I said, it is difficult to see the thing I’m talking about. The first picture shows the front of the motor with the front main cap, and the ridge on that cap is what digs into the cork when the pan is tightened down, forming a seal. There are no leaks here.

The next picture is of the rear main cap and the corresponding cork in the pan. For whatever reason, the camera, (operator, ) only caught one half of the “dam” made in the cork, but the flat spot at the bottom shows up pretty well. This spot would allow a very minimum seal, and I think hot oil under any kind of pressure, or velocity, could easily escape through this little passageway.

I’m thinking a fix would be to carefully grind away some of the area of the cap’s casting. The part needing relief is chalked in one of the photos. It seems this would allow the cork to crush higher in this area, subsequently causing the current break in the cork line to be more of a continuous nature. Hope this is a little clearer than mud. Comments? GA

[Young Ed]

Are worn cam shaft bearings also of source of low oil pressure ? I think someone mentioned that a while back .

Yes thats what goes first. Also typically the chemical they boil the block in wrecks the bearings so he'll have to get new ones after that. No way would I go as far as he is and not have new cam bearings installed.

[gillettealvin]

Yes thats what goes first. Also typically the chemical they boil the block in wrecks the bearings so he'll have to get new ones after that. No way would I go as far as he is and not have new cam bearings installed.

Yes, I plan to replace the cam bearings. I don't have the stick out yet, but expect the bearings to be weaker than perhaps the main/rods? While it is out I'm sending it down to my guy in FL for some "warm up" work. (Stay tuned.) Thanks for your comments. GA

[moparbenny]

o.k how's the plymouth coming?