'33 PC Winter Projects

[gillettealvin]

aero3113 has motivated me to share some of the stuff I’ve been messing with over the last few weeks. While I’d planned to run our ’33 PC coupe through the warm NC fall here, the “bug” hit, and she got sidelined a couple weeks ago.

Since I bought her last March the floor and sill area of the passenger’s foot area have been gnawing at me, you know, the kind of thing that keeps us awake nights thinking about it? Meanwhile, I got some friends that look at the car and say: “You could driver that thing for the REST of your LIFE and it would never rust anymore than it has!” Probably right. We won’t put 1000 miles a year on the car, it never goes out in the rain, and, well you know the story. But still, there is that pesky floor!

One picture here shows the only rot visible when the mat/insulation was pulled up. Another shows a couple hours later with the floorboards removed. Let the games begin!

[gillettealvin]

Since I first crawled up under the car I’ve itched to get after it. The body has never been off the car and it sat for over 40 years in a shed in MO. The right side took the brunt, but the underneath is just plain nasty. In one of these pics you can see some of the original factory paint on the x-mambers, but you also catch my drift as to the cobbled “repairs” over the years, the rust, (all surface, thankfully,) grease, cobwebs and dirt dauber nests, to say nothing of the All Metal smeared right over the rust on several areas, and the extensive use of my favorite: dry wall screws. I knew if the floors came out I’d be attacking the thing with deruster, wire brushes, and good old elbow grease. I’ve also contemplated a complete “body off” with all the appropriate sand blasting, painting, detailing, etc. My budget vetoed this idea, plus my desire to keep it simple, (Stupid,) after years and years of over-kill street rod/hot rods that were too nice, (or too expensive,) to drive.

[gillettealvin]

So, three days later, the floors/sills/sub frame areas are cut out of the passenger side, the totally rotten wood sub frame is out, and I’ve located a fabricator to cut and fit the new pieces into place.

Of course, with our girl this far “down,” the urge to pull the motor and trans to attack the stinky leaks is coming on strong. (More on that later!)

Here are some pictures of our girl more scantily clad than usual and showing her operation progress. The driver’s side sill/floor/sub rail area is very solid, for which I feel very fortunate. The actual rotted area is small for this vintage car.

[aero3113]

I'm glad I was able to motivate you . Please keep us updated with your progress.

[Young Ed]

FYI at least some of those are self tapping/drilling sheet metal screws

[RobertKB]

You have opened the proverbial can of worms. Let the games begin. Who let out the dogs of restoration? Good luck with the project. Sounds like you are going to keep the old girl original and I commend you for that. You will be happy when all the work is done and you are driving the old girl down the road and into the past! They really are time machines.

[gillettealvin]

When we got the car last March, my REAL girl really fell for the suicide doors and art deco look. In the spring we took a modern car from NC to CA and back, a lifetime dream of mine. Then, this past summer, my girl suggested that we try a trip in the old Plymouth, (“you’ve always wanted to drive an old car cross country, let’s cross the other way!”) At about that time the POC, (Young Ed??) started planning a “tour” in MN for August ’11. Meanwhile, old US 421 has its humble beginnings right here in Wilmington, NC, and it meanders all the way to the Upper Peninsula. What better way to “cross” (North/South) in an old car than on a lesser traveled route, with the end goal the meet in MN?

Thusly, our current dream is to ready the old Plymouth for a “ride of a lifetime.” With God’s help and some diligence I may just show up in MN with my favorite girls!

There will be some concessions, the main “upgrade” to a later Mopar rear. When it got down to it, installing an overdrive transmission would involve some major reworking and refitting of the original (’33 only,) transmission mounts/cross members, rendering any hope for a return to “stock” pretty much undoable. (See picture.) Attempting to get to a more highway-able rear ratio, the much lesser of the two evils is to change the factory 4:37 to 1 ratio closer to the middle 3:00 range. For those purists in the audience, we’ll keep the old rear end wrapped in a tarp in the shed in case a subsequent owner flinches at the “modern” rear.

At any rate, in addition to the floor/sill repair, our guy is going to help the firewall rehab additionally. One of these pictures shows the holes from previous heater installs. (Must have been several, from the look of the number of holes!) (See pic.) As long as she is down this far and needing a rear main seal, my convoluted logic says pull the motor and get a look inside. Better now than along the side of US 421 next summer.

Here are a couple pics of the car with most of the sheet metal now off.

[Young Ed]

Awesome I love the idea. Sounds like we'll have some great tours when everyone gets here.

[TodFitch]

The 33 rear end is a bit narrower than the later ones. Maybe a early 60's A body one would be close. But I think there was an economy version of the 36 with a 3.something ratio available that is simply a ring and pinion gear swap out in your current rear end.

Around 37 they did a total redesign of the rear end and so those won't work for you as far as swapping ring and pinion gears.

[JohnS48plm]

I put a 1938 Chrysler overdrive transmission in my 1933 Plymouth PD coupe. I had to modify the plate on the 38 shifter, the parking brake, weld a shift rail and the drive shaft had to be shortened about 3 inches.

I ran this setup for several years. One year I drove it from Battle Creek MI to Toronto Ontario. It ran great except for the lack of a kickdown so you had to slow to a speed less than 30 mph to get out of od. You could avoid this problem with a 39 or 40 transmission with a solenoid.

This car is now in Kokomo Indiana and is still running the overdrive I installed in the late 80s.

JohnS

[moparbenny]

i'm going to by running an 8 3/4 rear out of a '68 charger (b-body) in my '33 Chrysler i don't know

if Plymouths were narrower? but would suggest find an 8 3/4 rear or ford 9..and maybe see if you can get an adapter for a t-5 5spd...

i'm in the same boat i would love to restore my car back to stock but if your going to be driving in today's traffic on today's roads you may have to look into some mods...it's a good idea to keep all the parts you take off..

you might what to give these guys a call?http://www.transmissionadapters.com/index.htm if you want to run something like a t-5

if you get an 8 3/4 mopar you can get a 2.76 or a 3.23 ...i think if you go ford 9 they have a 3.00?

Edited November 14, 2010 by moparbenny

[gillettealvin]

Thanks for your note on the rear end stuff. My information says that all A-Body, (Valiant, Duster, Dart, and Demon,) used a 55.5 inch wide 8.75 rear with spring mounts at 43 inches. My stock rear is 56 inches wide, and the spring mounts are 43 inches, as well, which should come pretty close to a bolt in installation. I think the ratio in the mid 3:00 would be the best, something like a 3:55. This because I’m not going to change the transmission. The ’33 transmission mounting is complicated to say the least, and I’d as soon avoid hacking up the existing cross member just to put in a later transmission. My main goal is a relatively comfortable 55 MPH.

[gillettealvin]

The 33 rear end is a bit narrower than the later ones. Maybe a early 60's A body one would be close. But I think there was an economy version of the 36 with a 3.something ratio available that is simply a ring and pinion gear swap out in your current rear end.

Thanks, Tod for your (usual) helpful ideas. If anyone knows of a '36 rear with the 3: something gear, I would be interested? A few people have suggested a 4:11 carrier swap, but I don't think the gain would be worth the effort. George Asche told me there was a '31 or '32 small Chrysler that had a 3:78 matching drop out carrier, but admitted to the "hen's teeth" factor, too.

[gillettealvin]

Awesome I love the idea. Sounds like we'll have some great tours when everyone gets here.

Thanks! For the time being, we're planning to try to get there! GA

[thrashingcows]

Thanks for sharing your progress so far. I too have had the over restored show cars, and I enjoy my "clean" drivers much more. I very rarely go to shows anymore, much prefer a nice drive instead.

Keeps up posted.

[moparbenny]

Thanks for your note on the rear end stuff. My information says that all A-Body, (Valiant, Duster, Dart, and Demon,) used a 55.5 inch wide 8.75 rear with spring mounts at 43 inches. My stock rear is 56 inches wide, and the spring mounts are 43 inches, as well, which should come pretty close to a bolt in installation. I think the ratio in the mid 3:00 would be the best, something like a 3:55. This because I’m not going to change the transmission. The ’33 transmission mounting is complicated to say the least, and I’d as soon avoid hacking up the existing cross member just to put in a later transmission. My main goal is a relatively comfortable 55 MPH.

not all a-bodys had 8 3/4..a lot had the 7 1/4 littler rear end that i don't think was

a drop out..the 8 3/4 rear was optional.in the A body.so keep in mind in your quest that you might have to pay top dollar..for one..that's why a lot of street rodder guys i know who rod early 30's mopars give up and just go ford 9..because all the muscle car people are hogging the rears and driving up prices...unless you luck out and find someone who doesn't know what he has.. if so also ask the guy if he has some old violins he wants to get rid of...you might get lucky twice...good luck Benny

[Young Ed]

I would think there's nothing wrong with putting the 7 1/4 gear in there either. I doubt the 6cyl has enough guts to break it.

[TodFitch]

I would think there's nothing wrong with putting the 7 1/4 gear in there either. I doubt the 6cyl has enough guts to break it.

Especially a 1933 6 cylinder with its massive 70 BHP.

[Young Ed]

Especially a 1933 6 cylinder with its massive 70 BHP.

Exactly. And those same muscle car guys that hunt for 8 3/4 rears will toss a lesser(to them) one out without hesitation. The 225 /6 in dads valiant came from one of these guys who pulled it for a v8. Recently rebuilt great runner we picked up for $40.

[moparbenny]

I would think there's nothing wrong with putting the 7 1/4 gear in there either. I doubt the 6cyl has enough guts to break it.

agreed but most of those 7 1/4 were geared pretty tall..and if he's looking for 3.55 or to lower his gears he's up a creek...of course the 7 1/4 people are giving away...and i don't think it will break on him but would it be too tall he couldn't: get out of 1st gear?

[gillettealvin]

I really appreciate the ideas and suggestions about the rear end. I had thought of an 8 ¾ Mopar, but that is essentially because the “Southern Influence” is catching hold of this displaced Yankee. You know the builders down here are adamant about “a Ford in a Ford, a Chevy in a Chevy. . . . etc.”

I’ve been using the attached chart as a guide, but the suggestion of going with the 7.25 or the 8.25 has merit based on its less desirable status for the high horsepower guys, and subsequent cheaper price. The bolt pattern would need to be watched on the donor rear, it looks like. And yes, Todd, while opting for a few hop up goodies, we won’t be making much more H/P than the factory!

The guy that is doing my welding claims a Mopar hot rod buddy of his has 8 ¾ rears “stacked up like cord wood” in his yard. After some of the comments here, I’ll be anxiously awaiting the pending visit to pick out a rear for the car. GA

mopar_axle_sizes.pdf

[moparbenny]

yea i use to be one of those ford/ford/gm/gm/mopar/mopar...and then i grew up and had to pay my own way in the world and realize how much things cost..and sometimes you have to make concessions...and then you measure a 300 ford 6 and it fits better then a small block mopar in your '33 Chrysler...life has many surprises..

if you can score an a body 8 3/4 for cheap good for you. i for got your in the south and that is mopar country up here in the PNW..parts like that are really desirable..

just remember to have fun and build the car for you if you build it to please others you will not be pleased...

Edited November 16, 2010 by moparbenny

[gillettealvin]

The motor is out, parts spread all around our little two car garage.

I’d like your views on a couple of things. This motor runs very well, no smoke, noises, smells, etc. It shows 25 pounds of o/pressure at 40 miles per hour after warm. I did not take a compression check. It leaks to the degree that I leave a cookie sheet under it. My first plan was to leave it alone until next year and fix the floors and the firewall. But, the body work will be much easier to do, and the chassis will definitely benefit from a good wire brushing and steaming, also more simple sans the engine/transmission. So far so good. (Let the games begin!!)

My newest idea, (and subsequent quandary,) is to take the engine apart and only fix the rear main seal. Can of worms? Is it possible to take it all down, clean it up some, check for major stuff wrong, install the new seal, and button it all back up-or will I end up doing a complete rebuild?

Also, does anyone know if the later style solenoid/push button starter will fit in the same place as the foot activated ’33 on this bell housing? I would like to switch. If you know it to work, anyone got one for sale?

Thanks in advance for any comments. GA

[TodFitch]

If your "line in the sand" shifts to the point where you decide to paint the body you might want to keep in mind that the firewall (from the hood lacing forward) should be black regardless of body color. It wasn't until 1936 or 37 that the firewall color matched the body color (unless your body color was black).

25 pounds oil pressure at 40 MPH is low. Manual says 30 PSI at 30 MPH.

I can't tell from your photos, but it looks like you may have the last of the three oil pump/oil pressure relief valve setups used in 1933. A close up of the oil pump cover and the area around the oil filter return/later pressure relief valve area on the block would tell for sure. Or the engine number. It may make a difference if/when you look into it. Low pressure may be easy (broken or weak oil pressure relief spring, worn oil pump, etc.) or major (worn bearings). But you should at least find out the cause.

[P-12 Tommy]

I really appreciate the ideas and suggestions about the rear end. I had thought of an 8 ¾ Mopar, but that is essentially because the “Southern Influence” is catching hold of this displaced Yankee. You know the builders down here are adamant about “a Ford in a Ford, a Chevy in a Chevy. . . . etc.”

I’ve been using the attached chart as a guide, but the suggestion of going with the 7.25 or the 8.25 has merit based on its less desirable status for the high horsepower guys, and subsequent cheaper price. The bolt pattern would need to be watched on the donor rear, it looks like. And yes, Todd, while opting for a few hop up goodies, we won’t be making much more H/P than the factory!

The guy that is doing my welding claims a Mopar hot rod buddy of his has 8 ¾ rears “stacked up like cord wood” in his yard. After some of the comments here, I’ll be anxiously awaiting the pending visit to pick out a rear for the car. GA

I've got a stock 8.75 with 2.94 gears out of a '66 Charger you can have if you want it.

Tom