Engine Rebuild

[mtdodgetruck]

Tooling up to finally get started on an engine rebuild in future. Have three large 1.5-2 ton trucks. Plan on taking the largest output motor, which has a crack in the exterior of the block near a freeze out plug, and using the crank and rods in a lower out put, but good block. I'm sure it's been beaten to death on here but would appreciate any advise or tips to help during a Dodge overhaul to make it a happier engine when done (ie. smoother, stronger, more durable, higher output, etc.) The engine will end up in a 1948 COE so I believe I'm stuck with factory intake and up draft carb.

[grey beard]

Hey Montana Man,

Sounds like fun, mixing a larger displacement motor's crank and rods into a smaller displacement block. I guess the smaller ones are 265 cid and the larger are 279 or something like that. Either way, you;re working with the larger size 25-inch long truck blocks.

You are right in thinking you must stay with the original updraft carb from the COE, if your rebuilt engine is going back into hat thee Stubby truck. I hear those COE's are right down fun to do enigne pulls - gotta pull the nose off first, and then wrassle around through the floor to get at some of the bolts.

Get it all apart, and I'll come out and help you rebuild it. We'll get ou engine parts from Terrell Machine in Texas, and mebby swap in the five speed from the biggest truck - won't help your top end, but will give you one more hole when you're loaded.,

Let me know when you're ready to take those two engines apart.

Good Lucki

[mtdodgetruck]

Greybeard,

I'll keep you updated as I get closer to actual tear down. I take it Terrell Machine is the parts vendor of choice? How much room is there to play with boring and larger pistons and do you have an idea of coast verses gain? Other than milling the head for higher compression are there any other beneficial upgrades?

[grey beard]

When you make the choice to have a block bored, you are committing to several expensive purchases:

1. New oversize pistons to match the new bore size with oversized ring set

2. Getting the block tanked or otherwise cleaned, before it can be bored.

3. Mebby new cam shaft bearings, which always get ruined when #2 ahove takes place.

This usually means that a rebore will cost an additional 4 to 500 bucks, in addition to the other new parts usually needed in a conventional rebuild.

When I overhauled my own engine, I found half of a piston skirt in the oil pan from #6 piston. All the other pistons had the top ring groove hammered out, so a new set of pistons was needed. My block cylinder taper measured only 3 or 4 thou, which is still within usual and customary industrial wear limits, so I bought new pistons and rings in standard size, and rebuilt the engine in the frame. I just busted the glaze in each cylinder and cleaned the block within an inch of its life, and rebuilt the thing with new parts and of course all new bearings.

It now runs fine as frog hair, and I have more than 2,000 miles on the rebuild. My total cost for parts was less than $700 total.

'

I'm happy.

[ggdad1951]

  grey beard said:

When you make the choice to have a block bored, you are committing to several expensive purchases:

1. New oversize pistons to match the new bore size with oversized ring set

2. Getting the block tanked or otherwise cleaned, before it can be bored.

3. Mebby new cam shaft bearings, which always get ruined when #2 ahove takes place.

This usually means that a rebore will cost an additional 4 to 500 bucks, in addition to the other new parts usually needed in a conventional rebuild.

When I overhauled my own engine, I found half of a piston skirt in the oil pan from #6 piston. All the other pistons had the top ring groove hammered out, so a new set of pistons was needed. My block cylinder taper measured only 3 or 4 thou, which is still within usual and customary industrial wear limits, so I bought new pistons and rings in standard size, and rebuilt the engine in the frame. I just busted the glaze in each cylinder and cleaned the block within an inch of its life, and rebuilt the thing with new parts and of course all new bearings.

It now runs fine as frog hair, and I have more than 2,000 miles on the rebuild. My total cost for parts was less than $700 total.

'

I'm happy.

had to have mine bored to rid taper out of the cylinders...new pistons, new rings, new bearings all around....all told this motor rebuild has cost me $2400....and Sunday it goes back together...

[mtdodgetruck]

Heard of a PCV update available on some motors. Is this for the large and small block six motors?

[Mike@DRH]

If your working with the 230 CI engine pistons are easy to find and pretty reasonable as far as price. We sell matched sets of six for $125.00 total. I have checked our warehouse and they have pistons in stock at this time.

We charge $25.00 per cylinder for the lastest five step bore and hone process. So a six cylinder engine bore & hone complete is $150.00.

If anyone needs help with this, or any other engine, we would be more than happy to help. Our help line (me) is always free for all.

Mike

[Young Ed]

FYI Mike and anyone else. 230 pistons=218 pistons. The difference is in the stroke.

[HanksB3B]

Information as to what (and how) to measure the stroke to determine if your engine was displacing 218 or 230 cu.in. I'm pretty sure it was a matter of putting a rod of some sort through the plug hole and taking a measurement.

What is the measurement for the 218 and the measurement for the 230?

Thanks,

Hank

Also what is the difference in hp?

[Mike@DRH]

218 = 3.250 Bore X 4.375 Stroke

230 = 3.250 Bore X 4.625 Stroke

I did notice the piston part #'s are the same Ed. If the compression hieght is the same (and it would be for that piston ) they (Dodge) had to shorten the rod or increase the deck hieght. I'm not sure which one.

[Reg Evans]

A 218 = 4 3/8" stroke and a 230 = 4 5/8".

You remove the little pipe plug over #6 Cylinder and measure the stroke with a thin piece of wire.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Reg Evans

[Dave72dt]

When I was in the repair business full time,(five years ago) a bored and honed engine, valve grind, assembled usually ran about 1400 bucks. Adding cam and valves, springs brought the price up some. $2400 and it's not put together? I guess I didn't charge enough!

[HanksB3B]

I have 6 piston rods that came from Clorissa, my friend Slick's parts truck and for the life of me (it was 20 years ago) can't remember if we installed either my original block or opted to rebuild Clorissa's engine and reinstall it in my truck because a) It might have been in better shape...or just used the connecting rods. I think Clorissa was a 1950 3/4 ton. Would that be a 230?

Mine is a 1951 B3B 1/2 ton. Engine number starts with T172 (I think) which I don't think is my original block.

Hank

Are the running boards from a 3/4 ton and a 1/2 ton the same?

Edited October 6, 2010 by HanksB3B

[Merle Coggins]

WOW!!! I guess I got off cheaper that I thought. I'm sure glad I found this guy. Block bored, block decked, head milled, valve guides and seats replaced, and wrist pin bushings fitted for $732, including new pistons and rings. He did great work and was a pleasure to talk with about old flathead Mopars.

If you can't read it here's a closeup

[Dave72dt]

  HanksB3B said:

I have 6 piston rods that came from Clorissa, my friend Slick's parts truck and for the life of me (it was 20 years ago) can't remember if we installed either my original block or opted to rebuild Clorissa's engine and reinstall it in my truck because a) It might have been in better shape...or just used the connecting rods. I think Clorissa was a 1950 3/4 ton. Would that be a 230?

Mine is a 1951 B3B 1/2 ton. Engine number starts with T172 (I think) which I don't think is my original block.

Hank

Are the running boards from a 3/4 ton and a 1/2 ton the same?

Running boards will be the same only if the wheelbase is the same. Did they make 108" 3/4 tons or 116" 1/2 tons?

[Frank Elder]

  Merle Coggins said:

WOW!!! I guess I got off cheaper that I thought. I'm sure glad I found this guy. Block bored, block decked, head milled, valve guides and seats replaced, and wrist pin bushings fitted for $732, including new pistons and rings. He did great work and was a pleasure to talk with about old flathead Mopars.

If you can't read it here's a closeup

Merle you got off cheeep:)thanks for posting your phone numbers:eek:

[ggdad1951]

  Dave72dt said:

When I was in the repair business full time,(five years ago) a bored and honed engine, valve grind, assembled usually ran about 1400 bucks. Adding cam and valves, springs brought the price up some. $2400 and it's not put together? I guess I didn't charge enough!

Ikm thinking I could have gotten cheaper, but Wagamon Bothers is a premier place that one would have NO issues with so I went there. They also do LOTS of race engines.

[Young Ed]

Did you use wagamon at 37th and university? Or do they have another location?

[ggdad1951]

  Young Ed said:

Did you use wagamon at 37th and university? Or do they have another location?

37th and university lord knows I've been there enuf

Edited October 7, 2010 by ggdad1951

[HanksB3B]

  Dave72dt said:

Running boards will be the same only if the wheelbase is the same. Did they make 108" 3/4 tons or 116" 1/2 tons?

Did they make 108 3/4 tons?

Thanks,

Hank

[Merle Coggins]

  FRANKIE47 said:

Merle you got off cheeep:)thanks for posting your phone numbers:eek:

I've posted my phone numbers here before. Go ahead and gie me a call.

  HanksB3B said:

Did they make 108 3/4 tons?

Thanks,

Hank

NO.

[HanksB3B]

I'm still not sure and will find out if I'm running 218 or 230. Now I know how to find out.

Thanks,

Hank

[Merle Coggins]

Unless someone changed your engine at some time you should have a 218. The 230 was only used in the 1 ton trucks during the B-Series run.

[HanksB3B]

More than likely (as is most cases) you are correct since my truck (B3B-108) inhereted Clorissa's running boards, based on what you shared Clorissa was a 1/2 ton truck. But this is going back 20 years and somehow either Slickenmeyer's or my lack of understanding of what a "numbers-matching" vehicle was, chose to either toss my engine and use Clorissa's because it was just in better shape or the T172 engine was originally in my truck and a former owner had replaced it. It remains a mystery to me but for the sake of argument I will measure the stroke using the method Reg defined.

Thanks,

Hank

[Merle Coggins]

T172 is a 218 engine from a B1B or C, or B2B or C