Fuel pump failure from ethanol

[_shel_ny]

...

Edited September 5, 2011 by shel_bizzy_48

[Niel Hoback]

I have been using 10% ethanol in al the gas powered equipment I own ever since it became available. No problems at all. Ever.

[randroid]

Folks,

I'm with Niel on this as to no failures but there's been more than one person who attributes failure to ethanol. Anybody ever find anything definitive on this?

-Randy

[greg g]

my fuel pump is going on 8 years now. I swapped it over from my 217 to the 230 in 05/6, I do believe that the amount of ethanol in the mix will be going up to 15 % shortly and then 20 % shortly there after.

[Captain Neon]

I think ethanol can be a contributing factor towards fuel pump failure with old material, but I ran for over eight years with ethanol fuel before having problems this year. Accelerator pump went out on the carburetor in 2008, but again, ethanol was probably not the only factor. The car also sat in storage for three years from '97 to '00. Car also sat parked for 10 years before my father found and bought the car in '86.

Things wear out and rubber gets dry and brittle. These are 60+ year old cars that usu. don't get driven every day. My advice is to have a freshly rebuilt carburetor and fuel pump handy for the inevitable, or be prepared to park the car while it is getting fixed.

It could be years, even over a decade, before one actually has a failuire. It is easy to blame something new as the cause of failure. However, I am reminded of some thing my father always carped at my brother and me when we would inadvertently break one of his tools or other piece of equipment as kids, "I've had this for 20 years. You kids use it one time and you break it."

The fact of the matter is that said broken tool or equipment had gotten special care and use for over 10 years, and my brother or I used as intended and it just finally broke. It's became a bit of a long-standing joke in our family any time any thing breaks.

E-10 has been mandated in Minnesota since at least 1997. In the long run, E-10, IMHO, may be better for our vehicles as it reduces the amount of sludge in the tank. Minnesota auto parts stores that will be candid w/ long-time customers will agree that they don't sell nearly as much fuel line antifreeze or carburetor cleaner as they did back in the days before the E-10 mandate.

Cans and bottles of carb cleaner seem dustier on the shelf than they did 15 years ago likely from slower turn-over. Also less space shelf at Wal*Marts in Minnesota for fuel line antifreeze than in the '90s as the stuff just doesn't sell like it used to due to the antifreeze properties inherent in E-10. Most Minnesotans can't remember the last time they put HEET in the gas, but in the '80s and '90s it was deemed as foolhardy not to add a bottle of HEET every fuel up during the winter.

Old car guys in long-time E-10 mandated fuel areas are now starting to actually embrace the fuel and some are giving consideration to modifying muscle cars to run on E-85 for the high octane properties. It has been my experience that once one starts using E-10 and the hiccups get worked out, old cars actually run better on the stuff than the non-oxygenated fuel.

Now MTBE is a whole other ball game, and much of the bad reputation E-10 has gotten is actually due to the corrosive properties of MTBE. Last I knew, MTBE is no longer used in petrol in these united States because of MTBE's corrosive properties. Ethanol is considered a much safer, less corrosive, and more effective oxygenate than MTBE.

[David Strieb]

I pump regular unleaded in the '38 and '40 (mechanical pumps), mid range in the '36 (electric pump) and drive the hell out of them. I think if you drive 'em you're less likely to have problems, IMO. I'm thinking of switching to electrical pumps on everything, as vapor lock is a problem at times on the '38. Not sure if gas in Wa. is the same as what you're running.

[TodFitch]

So far, so good on the fuel pump. California only recently switched from requiring MTBE to requiring ethanol, so maybe it is too soon to tell on my fuel pump. And I did rebuild it when I put everything back together using a modern (for 1980s/90s) material that was supposed to resist damage from fuel additives.

However my gas cap gasket, made from some rubber purchased from the hardware store, which worked fine for the last 8 or so years disintegrated this month. I am wondering if that was to do with ethanol. (The filler neck is all of an inch or so long, mounted on the back of the tank. So the gasket actually has to hold in fuel when the tank is full. On later cars the gasket on the tank cap really only has to hold in the fumes.)

[desoto1939]

I had the old style single wire electric pump in my 39 Desoto die last month.

The pump was manufactured in 1984. This pump had seen the use of the oxyeginated gas also alsothe use of the 10% ethinol gas.

When I took the electric pump apart the rubber diaphram was completely gone. It was just all small pieces and flakes of rubber inthe unit. Since there was always gas in the line and the unit was mounted about 2 feet from the tank it would also was have been full of gas.

I replaced the unit with the new Airtex electric pump that has the selinoid in the unit.

As stated by other posts I would recommend that everyone put one of these units on their older cars especially since we do not drive them every day. This provide you with a backup incase the mechanical pump fails. I knw some of the guys are rebuiling their own pumps and have also heard that some of the rebuilt units inwhich the rod that holds the rocker arm have broken. If this is the case then you are stuck onthe road. The electric pump will stillpump and get you home and also this helps incase you have a vapor lock.

When start the car after has sat for several days this also helps to prime the carb. This was the best $50 that I have spent on my old car.

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[JBNeal]

if I remember right, MTBE is on the way out because although it helps to clean emissions, it doesn't break down when it gets in the water supply and has been linked to problems akin to lead & mercury or the like. Ethanol & methanol will 'attack' most natural materials, but is not as deleterious to sythetic materials such as stainless steel alloys, EPDM rubber, etc.

E-10 has quietly become used here in TX as in many other places as most cars on the road have the critical materials in their fuel system hardware that can handle the evaporative characteristics of this biofuel. The ethanol in E-10 is essentially a combustible filler that helps in producing cleaner emissions but does not substantially affect catalytic converters or oxygen sensors. The gasoline in E-10 has enough lubrication to overcome any drying effect that ethanol has on rubber components, so modern synthetic rubber can withstand contact. Natural rubber, on the other hand, will dissolve in time with contact to E-10.

[Niel Hoback]

Since methanol was mentioned in passing, both of my newer cars say on them "DO NOT USE ANY FUEL CONTAINING METHANOL".

[_shel_ny]

bump

 

 

 

 

Sold my car last year, but no failure after 12 years.

Edited December 19, 2014 by shel_ny

[greg g]

I have been reading on the subject of ethanol and SU carbs for an off topic vehicle.  On forums and chat boards the opinions and personal experiences run the gamut from no problems to dire descriptions of catastrophic failure.  I happened on the web site of the manufacture who currently makes SU carbs and parts.  Their professional opinion is that damage, if it occurs, happens in vehicles that are not regularly driven.  Fresh ethanol blended fuels when kept flowing through a system do not pose a problem.  It is when fuel sits that the water vapor that the alcohol portion attracts begins to cause corrosion and forms compounds that are harmful to fuel system components.  Their testing showed that the most likely failure in SU equipped older systems were the rubber fuel lines.  Swapping those out for newer synthetic pieces solved that problem.  So fill em up and run them out on a regular basis and you don't need to worry.  maybe a shut off valve between the pump and carb, and run them till they quit, might be something worthwhile prior to a nap exceeding a couple weeks is the thing to do to protect carbs and components.  If your fuel pump was made after the 70's likely its components are no longer all natural, and resistant to the  foibles of alcohol enhanced fuel blends.