Steering Box

[HanksB3B]

Now that my truck’s 98% complete, the clutch problem solved and running well, it’s been really nice to start work on improving things at a much slower pace. On top of the list is the steering box.

Since I’m not an expert and I can never tell what trouble I’ll get into, rather than just pull the steering box out of the truck and possibly incur some down time, my approach was to find another steering box to rebuild.

The box came from a 1951 B3B which is the same year as my truck. After sand blasting, I brought it to the Saturday morning group “Caffeine Cruisers”. It goes without saying that just because a guy owns a car or truck to die for, it doesn’t mean he actually did the work so finding someone to ask for advice isn’t always as easy as on our forum.

Dennis has a beautiful 51 Ford pickup and I often park next to him. Dennis must be close to 70 and mostly just sits in his truck and listens to his iPod, but he is faithful at showing up each week. I asked Dennis if he knew any “real mechanics” in the group. Dennis stepped up to the plate and as soon as I asked him a few questions, I could tell he was one of those guys that forgot more than I’ll ever need to know. I brought the steering box over and to my surprise Dennis got out of his truck and handled it and said “You did real good there’s very little play, it seems real tight”.

I went home and without opening the cover plates, gave the steering box and the other steering column parts a couple of coats of Rustoleum Appliance Epoxy. As far as experience has shown me, without getting into a high priced product the Rustoleum Epoxy is my second choice only to powdercoat.

I started thinking about lubrication. It just didn’t feel right to do anything other than rid the box of any grease of unknown origin, age or condition. I opened up the box and what I found was more like grease than oil. It was tougher to wash out than I thought, it took more than a spray can of gunk, so it was off to Ricardo’s parts wash steamer and even then it took a combination of blasting with air and melting out with steam. Amazingly, the epoxy held up, but dulled a little so I gave it another coat this morning. Everything is drying in the sun. (I’m watching Talladega instead of watching the paint dry).

Back to lubrication, here are a few things I know and/or have heard from various sources:

1. The Dodge Truck Manual calls for 90 weight oil.

2. Someone mentioned Corn Head Lube as an excellent product that made their truck seem as though it had power steering.

3. More than one professional rebuilder has suggested using high temperature bearing grease and even recommended synthetic as more desirable.

My mind is not made up. Oil offers the possibility of draining and flushing out with kerosene. Assuming oil was used, (and probably never flushed) over the years the oil worked itself into a thick grease-like substance, and was not able to be drained.

I have the following products:

1. Sta-Lube 75w-90w gear oil. (Currently in my transmission and differential). Not my first choice, but since I still have small leaks in both have not moved to Redline, Amsoil, Purple or any expensive synthetic.

2. Mobile 1 Synthetic Grease. Initially, I used this product on all of the grease fittings but decided I didn’t like it because it tended to liquefy. Although it’s the only synthetic grease I have, I don’t think I’ll use it. In the tube it has a “sticky” feeling.

3. Kendall Super Blue. I have nothing but good feelings about this product. Originally introduced to me by Johnson’s Alignment (covered in another thread) I re-lubed all grease fittings, pumping out the Mobile Synthetic until I saw blue. Even though this is not a synthetic, it has a real slippery feel to it and holds its consistency. I’m leaning towards using this in the steering box for the following reasons:

a. I’m prone to believe it does not matter what you use as long as it is clean. A synthetic may be great but the rpm of the steering box is ¼ rpm if that much.

b. Since the steering box has to be serviced every 10,000 miles, I think it'll not need service for a very long time if at all.

c. Bearing grease, as opposed to oil is “vogue” with professional re-builders I've spoken to. Don't ask me why, my guess is it falls into the "No-Leak" category.

4. I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts and your opinions.

Thanks,

Hank

Edited April 25, 2010 by HanksB3B

[JBNeal]

On several farm PTO driven gearboxes I've worked on, I switched to Traveller lithium multi-purpose grease. It's thicker than gear oil, but thinner than higher quality wheel bearing greases such as Valvoline or StaLube. If the shafts are wore a little at the seals, the grease has a harder time leaking out than the oil. Also, any condensation that may form will bead up on top of the grease and can be removed easily with a paper towel at service intervals. The trick is submerging the gears with the grease. Turning the gears will force some of the grease up the walls of the gearbox, but vibration during vehicle travel eventually levels out the grease.

Edited March 7, 2012 by JBNeal

[austinsailor]

The boxes were designed to take heavy oil. The problem is, seals get old, it leaks and people put grease in instead of oil. Then the problem is, the grease doesn't get to all the surfaces it needs to.

My first choice is to put new seals in and use heavy oil that will flow into all the bearings and bushings. My 47 3 ton had a bushing at the output that was especially hard for the oil to get to. It had grease in it with a grease fitting installed into the fill plug. It was very worn out, but only at the shaft just before the seal. We machined down the shaft until it was smooth again, machined a new bushing, put in a new seal and it works great. It holds 90 weight just fine now.

The '48 I am now driving had a perfectly tight steering box, and it is full of 90 weight, the same as it probably was from the factory. It does not leak.

In my opinion, it should have something that will flow. Not wheel bearing grease, not anything that will stay where you put it. It's got to move on it's own to get into the places it has to lubricate.

[HanksB3B]

The boxes were designed to take heavy oil. The problem is, seals get old, it leaks and people put grease in instead of oil. Then the problem is, the grease doesn't get to all the surfaces it needs to.

My first choice is to put new seals in and use heavy oil that will flow into all the bearings and bushings. My 47 3 ton had a bushing at the output that was especially hard for the oil to get to. It had grease in it with a grease fitting installed into the fill plug. It was very worn out, but only at the shaft just before the seal. We machined down the shaft until it was smooth again, machined a new bushing, put in a new seal and it works great. It holds 90 weight just fine now.

The '48 I am now driving had a perfectly tight steering box, and it is full of 90 weight, the same as it probably was from the factory. It does not leak.

In my opinion, it should have something that will flow. Not wheel bearing grease, not anything that will stay where you put it. It's got to move on it's own to get into the places it has to lubricate.

My doubts on the use of grease confirmed. Will no doubt look at different products. Other than a gasket on the adjustment cover plate and the 5 shims which are nothing more than paper gaskets of various thickness there are no seals. Where the shaft penetrates the steering box there was a gooey and broken felt washer nothing more. I wonder if I can find the felt part or improvise. Any ideas? I'll look into Travellers and see if Corn Head Lube, or which synthetics would be appropriate.

Thanks,

Hank

Edited April 26, 2010 by HanksB3B

[austinsailor]

The machinist who does the old ones here, and did my steering box, came up with a modern seal that fit just right. I'd be surprised to find that there isn't something modern that would fit. The big challenge would be to know where to look. Maybe a bearing house that specializes in those sort of things?

[HanksB3B]

Gene,

Are you referring to the felt "Dust Washer" as it is called in the book. Yes I'm sure it would look like any of the newer type thin-ring with a spring and urethane rubber seals only real small. I'm going to vist "CJ" Automotive this morning with my ready to assemble steering box after I scan the pencil rubbings I made off the housing, to document the gaskets. I'll then import them into AutoCad and give them real dimensions and make a paper pattern. I wish I knew someone who had a laser cutter rather than hole punch and x-acto cut them by hand. Gaskets are getting harder to find these days.

Thanks,

Hank

P.S. I didn't know you were so into it. Any possibility of finding out the part number of the seal from your guy?

[austinsailor]

Mine is a 3 ton, much bigger and a cometely different setup. But chances are a good shop could find something to fit. I say that without having seen a box like yours taken apart.

[Merle Coggins]

I had done some reading on steering gear box lube and found many places recommending a 00 grease. This is a semi-fluid type of grease that can flow in and around bearings, and is often recommended in tractor-trailer wheel hubs to keep the bearings lubed with less chance of it leaking through the wheel seal and contaminating the brakes. Sometimes 00 grease can also be classified as ISO 460 grade oil.

Although I have good intentions to do so I haven't yet checked the lube in my own steering box. If I have to add some and find it leaking out I'll give 00 grease a try. I've found that many lawn tractors use it in their gear boxes so it is readily available at lawn and garden implement dealerships.

Merle

[HanksB3B]

These are for the Gemma Steering Box used on my 51 B3B.

1. The larger of the two are for the cover plate where the adjusting screw and oil fill hole reside. Only one gasket .033 in thick (approx) is required. The cross hairs help to locate the hole punch for 1/4" bolts.

2. Page 409 Plate 19-2 depicts five shims of two thickness .005 in and .010 are used to adjust the amount of end play in the steering box worm gear. Removing one of the shims will increase the pressure that the outer bearing cup places on the cage and roller part of the bearing. Hard to believe that 005 in can make a difference, but it does. The inner hole is 5/32" to accomodate again a 1/4" bolt.

The pdf prints should be full size. I'm not certain what "manage attachments" on the P15-D24 forum will do to them, but feel free to PM me and I'll email attach them if you need them.

Hopefully, I should be able to cut the new gasket and shims and finalize the steering box assembly tomorrow. I will use synthetic oil of some sort. CJ's explained that the top of the unit is designed not to be leak-proof (where the shaft meets the housing at the dust washer). The oil is to be filled once the unit is installed in the truck. CJ's said "The reason you will find Grease not Oil in the housing is that "no one ever drains and re-fills the steering box". "If the gasket and shims are done properly the unit will not leak".

P.S. Gene, I did find a "modern" dust washer at CJ's. Merle thanks for "00" Grease research. Amsoil makes some but I'm still not decided. I will look at what Redline and others have to offer. Who did suggest Corn Head Lube? What is the weight of that product and I think it's a John Deere product.

Hank

Cover Plate.pdf

Shims.pdf

Edited April 27, 2010 by HanksB3B

[48Dodger]

Corn Head Grease is #0 (very soft...like mustard) Specially designed for John Deere Corn head Tractors gear boxes, but used on other types of equipment too. part# AN102562

John Deere Grease, part #TY25083 is a #0, but not as fancy as the Cornhead Grease. used on mower grears and golfcarts.

Corn Head is a hybrid, which means it'll thin under heavy use and thicken back up when idle. Kinda of a #0 to a #00 and back. Its used on thier mowers and carts too.

Grease is for gears that can't get a continous oil supply or are low velosity...I would say you don't need an oil (90w) to "flow the heat away" like in a rearend differential which will have a high pressure/heat stituation. The steering is a simple gearbox, the Corn Head would be perfect. IMHO

48D

[HanksB3B]

What could be better, the nearest Amsoil Dealer just moved from Oregon to up the street from me. I ordered 1 qt of 80w-90 synthetic gear oil. Hopefully that oughta do it! Now on to the gasket cutting and assembly. Will post some pics for anyone interested.

Hank

[HanksB3B]

Taking the steering box apart has given me a much better understanding of what is involved to adjust them. Having the right amount of shims makes a big difference in how much play can be adjusted by the adjusting screw. It was easy with the steering box out for sure, but now I have the feel of how to work both the shims and the adjusting screw together to get the best possible adjustment.

Although I've "got the hang" of not over-correcting while driving (my wheel has about 4-6 inches of free movement), I want it to work like the day it drove out of the Dealer if possible. I wonder if they squeaked and creaked when they were brand new. Here's the last shots of the mechanism before it gets installed. Note the battery terminal felt insulator as a improvised replacement for the original felt dust washer, and the extra added "modern" dust seal from CJ's.

I'm still not sure how much of the excess wheel play will go away by installing the re-built unit, but I'm hoping for a substantial improvement.

Thanks everyone for your help and interest,

Hank

[HanksB3B]

Fool me me twice shame on me...again!

That darn gas pedal linknge! This is the second time I installed the floor boards only to realize I'd missed making sure it was thru the hole in the floorboard before bolting the entire floorboard assembly down. There's no way out but to uninstall and reinstall. Now I'm a Nascar qualified pit man for Pilothouse Floor Board Pit-Stops.

Well that's not the dumbest thing I did when reinstalling the rebuilt steering box. On my test drive I could only make left-hand turns. (Another Nascar thing). Seems I bolted the Pitman Arm without determining the steering lock-to-lock count, dividing by two and centering the steering first.

The good news is "I NOW HAVE NO EXCESS STEERING PLAY" It was so nice to drive without every dip in the road or bump sending me off in an unexpected direction that I'd have to be sure to correct and not over-correct.

The unit is filled with Amsoil 75w-90 and not leaking. I do think I could improve things a just little more by using either "00" grease, "Corn-Head Lube", or STP (as the owner of this 1948 Bentley Convertible I saw yesterday advised me to do) I also might remove one of the .005 shims. I've learned that there is a direct correlation between the amount of shims and the adjustment screw. I am also toying with the idea of replacing the star shaped washer with a round washer and using a thin nut in place of the original cap. The star washer has to fit the raised circle of the housing at the filler cap. The square-cut-key in the adjustment screw and the square tab on the star dictates how the washer is positioned causing you to have to back-off (rather than over-tighten) the adjustment screw to seat the star washer against the housing just right. This results in a compromised, or less than ideal adjustment.

Hank

Edited May 2, 2010 by HanksB3B

[grey beard]

In your quest for steering box perfection, do not overlook the fact that there is a high spot in the very center of the worm shaft gear. It is on this high spot that your sector shaft must sit when you adjust the mesh load scrrew on the top of the box. Threse boxes all have play - even from new - when off-center. The high center spot is what makes the wheel return back to center when you let your hands off the wheel, after you've turned a coroer - that plus the caster adjustment built into your front axle and king pins. If you make your mesh load adjustment off-center, you will have a tight spot when you do get the worm to the center. This adjustment is best done on the benvch, but can be done in the frame, if you drop the pitmen arm.

Good Luck

PS That corn head grease is almost like adding power steering, AND when you hear creaking or snappding when you turn the wheel hard while sitting still it is most likely dry or worn out front spring hangers and bushings/shackles. Lube 'em up and try again. JMHO

[HanksB3B]

Always like more technical insight. Didn't know about the high spot, but it's steering and returning on the corners like you described. Any comment on eliminating the star washer ? I am going to test it out. What do you guys think.

Thanks,

Hank

[DollyDodge]

I am a bit confused about the steering box. I took mine apart, cleaned it and replaces the seal, and put the same shims back on. The box still had oil and fairly clean. The bushings and bearins don't show any wear. My question is, once I put it back together, it has a tight spot when the column is rotated near center (as mentioned below). I am unclear from the discussion if that is the way it is suppose to feel or did I do something incorrectly? If it isn't suppose to be tight at the center how do I fix it?

Rob

[HanksB3B]

Rob,

This sounds familiar but it's been a while so here goes. It's not unusual to have a high spot. Someone more knowledgeable about machining may know if this eccentricty is part of the design or from long term wear. Here's the thing, in post #9 of this thread there is a pattern for the shims. I found it unbelievable that a shim of .003 thickness could influence the performance of a massive piece of rolling metal weighing over 2 tons but amazingly it does! During the operating life of our trucks (I think there are 5 when the truck left the factory) shims could have been removed by errant mechanics or owners. Hope your steering box is out of the truck but if not, with patience, the addition or removal of shims on a trial and error basis, along with adjustment of the screw and locknut should result in giving you the best possible results for your steering box taking into consideration the level of wear based on your trucks historical and dedicated useage. (mine was an old roofing truck)

Don't worry Buddy..We'll get er done!

Hank

Edited March 6, 2012 by HanksB3B

[Dave72dt]

You may have the adjusting screw a bit tight. Your bind should be in the center of your travel. That's the spot you need to adjust it at. Back the screw off until the bind just goes away. The idea is no free play and no bind. Shims take care of the end play. If those were to tight, you'd feel bind throughout the travel. Too loose and yourshaft will wobble a bit and seal will end up leaking.

[pflaming]

I started to remove the cover from my steering box and oil started to run out, so I tightened it back up. Looking at the pdf on the shims, it appears they are between the cover and the case, is that correct? I'm not going to do anything until I drive the truck, then adjust accordingly, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is my conclusion.

[HanksB3B]

Oil is a good sign. I'd do as you say. The shims act as an oil seal and as a adjustment. If an adjustment to eliminate play cannot be achieved by screw and locknut, then removing one shim at a time brings tolerances in closer, then try to adjust once more with the screw and locknut. It's a patience thing. Once all done fill it with good quality heavy duty 75W 90 synthetic oil.

Hank

[DollyDodge]

Glad to know the bind is suppose to be in the center I feel better now, it is very slight as it is now, so I will adjust with the nut. Thanks

Edited June 14, 2012 by DollyDodge

[B1B Keven]

In your quest for steering box perfection, do not overlook the fact that there is a high spot in the very center of the worm shaft gear. It is on this high spot that your sector shaft must sit when you adjust the mesh load screw on the top of the box. These boxes all have play - even from new - when off-center. The high center spot is what makes the wheel return back to center when you let your hands off the wheel, after you've turned a corner - that plus the caster adjustment built into your front axle and king pins. If you make your mesh load adjustment off-center, you will have a tight spot when you do get the worm to the center. This adjustment is best done on the bench, but can be done in the frame, if you drop the pit-man arm.

Good Luck

PS That corn head grease is almost like adding power steering, AND when you hear creaking or snapping when you turn the wheel hard while sitting still it is most likely dry or worn out front spring hangers and bushings/shackles. Lube 'em up and try again. JMHO

Question:

How does one find the 'high spot' on the worm gear shaft?

[Dave72dt]

Lock to lock, count the turns, divide by 2. That many turns from either end. Should be in the center of the gear's travel.

[B1B Keven]

The problem is, I've taken the box completely apart and lost my starting point.

I feel like John Jerome chasing valve timing around.

[Dave72dt]

Put it back together. No starting point is needed. The sector shaft is what limits the number of turns and the crown is built into it, not the worm. the worm gear just goes around and around. You're actually finding the center of the sector shaft when counting the turns.